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New tests claim the Shroud of Turin is from the 1st century

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Lord Vader, Mar 27, 2013.

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  1. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    However, all of that is irrelevant when it comes to being tortured, crucified, and buried within a burial cloth.

    BTW, your comments about what he look like, comments that are most likely accurate assessments of Jesus's physical attributes, have always made me feel rather uncomfortable when Jesus is portrayed on film as being rather sexy or good-looking. Even in the current miniseries on the History Channel, Jesus is, according to many people, rather handsome. That just makes me personally feel funny. Don't know why; it just does.
     
  2. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    I understand what you mean. He's also often depicted as a soft and frail guy... Carpenters usually aren't frail, especially back then because everything was pure manpower with no fancy electric drills or nail guns.

    His looks are relevant, IMO.
     
  3. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    But if you're the Son of God/God, you don't need any drills or nail guns, right? You can just will the nails into place. :p
     
  4. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    :lol: Good point.
     
  5. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    One of my classes I teach is World History "A," which covers ancient history and the origins of the major religions. I love discussing with my students all the major religions, because I find it fascinating trying to understand as humans concepts that by their very definition are beyond human understanding. When we get to Christianity, the questions from my non-Christian students are always very good and respectful. As a Roman Catholic Christian myself, I never proselytize in class, but I admit I do find it challenging trying to explain, for example, the concept of the Trinity--3 persons in one God.

    One of the most difficult questions to answer is: "If Jesus was also God and not just the Son of God, why did He let Himself suffer such physical horrors? Couldn't He have just caused the pain to be nonexistent?" (Capitalization of pronouns added)

    One of my favorite questions from a student was this: "If Jesus was also God, when He was a little baby inside Mary's womb, who was running the universe?"

    And these aren't teenagers asking these questions. They're students who range in age from 17-23. Fascinating questions they often ask.
     
  6. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    Better yet, Jesus, the Son of God who walked on water, could just will a structure into existence.

    Shazam!
     
  7. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    A la the Green Lantern. After all, the power of the Will is the ultimate power, right? Or something like that. :p
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    He could have ... but the religious folks understand that he suffered for a reason.

    A good time to explain omnipresence. Sure, He was there in the womb as a baby - but He was also outside of the womb. Saying God is in one place is forgetting omnipresence. That also applies to time. The Jesus that was born existed when the world was created. Not an easy concept to understand.

    I can understand why many choose not to believe or choose to believe without worrying about the details.
     
  9. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    Oh, I know. I was just being facetious.


    Indeed. If I give a serious answer to this type of question, I remind someone that if Jesus is God, then with God, all things are possible, including omnipresence.

    On the subject of Jesus's creation, Christians know that He was never created, per se; rather, He was begotten of the Father.

    As the Nicene Creed explains:
    Fascinating to think about, I admit.

    As far as understanding why some don't believe, I can empathize with such folks, but I do believe it's often because it's difficult to believe in something or someone when the understanding is beyond human comprehension. When our minds become overwhelmed by the sheer enormity of something, or the seemingly impossibility, we often tend to dismiss such things as unbelievable, not possible.
     
  10. machavez00

    machavez00 Hall Of Fame

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    Thats Consubstantial with the Father
     
  11. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    The word "consubstantial" was added at the beginning of last liturgical year in the Roman Catholic Mass. The original Nicene Creed was as I quoted above. It's really six of one, half-dozen of the other, for the most part, IMHO.

    I'm still trying to get used to the new wording during Mass after reciting for decades the old stuff. :confused: :p
     
  12. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    The same thing can be said for some scientific theories etc. Even for someone fairly scientific laypeople, the idea of the singularity before the Big Bang, or the multiverse, space/time etc is almost unbelievable and almost beyond comprehension.
     
  13. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    I wouldn't disagree with that contention, but what if, unlike most religious issues, in science one doesn't believe scientific fact? Or what if one disputes scientists' theories because a specific theory seems to contradict the very laws of physics/science? ;)
     
  14. armophob

    armophob Difficulty Concen........

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    Is the shroud the first image available of which famous painters of the ages based their paintings to get the "generic" image of Jesus? Or did one artist come up with the concept and then was copied by the rest and then the shroud matched later?
     
  15. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    I believe the shroud and paintings are independent of each other. Considering the shroud came centuries before such paintings, it couldn't "match" anything.
     
  16. armophob

    armophob Difficulty Concen........

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    Was it discovered before or after the paintings and sculptures began with the iconic image?
     
  17. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    I believe it was "discovered" (perhaps "recovered" would be the better term) in the early 1300s, but its history allegedly dates back centuries before that.
     
  18. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    It's just that some people are more grounded in reality. Throughout history, people have created various fairytales to explain the unknown. Modern religion is no more plausible than Greek mythology. It's a great way to make money though! Just look at the Catholic church! Makes for some humorous museums as well where children are taught that dinosaur and man coexisted.
     
  19. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Yes, the big bang is one of those interesting theories. There is a lot of believing going on.
     
  20. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    I said fairytales...not theories, James. Again...fairytales...not theories.
     
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