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"No one forced you to get an HR20" -- HUH???

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by perilous, Jan 4, 2007.

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  1. Jan 4, 2007 #1 of 282

    perilous Legend

    Sep 4, 2006
    I posted this in another thread (buried) and felt it was worthy of "serious" discussion...

    I love that those of you who "love my HR20" and "no problems with mine" can rationalize that people who are having problems -- MANY of them (TOO many for a consumer product in today's age) -- should not complain and/or vent in the ONLY forum dedicated to the HR20!!!! Gimme a freakin' break!! If your HR20 works perfectly...GOOD FOR YOU!!! But for those of you who continue to have problems, PLEASE KEEP COMPLAINING!!!!

    One suggestion -- If D*TV would come clean and ACKNOWLEDGE the problems and try to explain what happened and its proposed solutions, PERHAPS people would be a little more understanding and patient. However, thanks to all of this mysery and pretending "only a few" are having issues is such utter BS, it boggles the mind!!!

    Now to those of you -- including YOU Eric -- who keep saying no one is "forced" to get the HR20, are you freakin' kidding me!!! Thank goodness, none of you are in charge of Marketing and/or Strategic Planning at D*TV!!! That's a great message to send to the marketplace -- buy our product and MAYBE it will work as advertised. But, if it doesn't (after making a 2-year commitment!!!), you will be put into D*TV CSR roulette land of suggested reboots, get new wires, change your settings -- all to no avail -- ultimately leading to a cycle of replacement boxes. Then, if you find this forum to vent your frustrations with this "D*TV hell", you are ADVISED that "no one forced you" to get the HR20!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :nono: :nono: :nono:
  2. Jan 4, 2007 #2 of 282

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

    Jul 19, 2005
    What has this post accomplished?

    Go use a cable companies HD DVR for a few weeks, and see how it compares. I tried one, and compared to those, the HR20 is flawless. I tried E* as well, same issues. The HR20 is new, it has a few bugs, some greatly affect usability at times, others are just slight nuisances, apparently which some militant tv watchers cant live with even for a short time. What is the worst that has happened, you miss an occasional tv show? Get over it already!!
  3. Jan 4, 2007 #3 of 282
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    Proposed Solution: Fix it.

    What else do you want? Do you want the source code for the system? Do you want to see the project plan? What proposed solutions do you want to see?

    Do you honestly think DirecTV wants the system to perform the way it is?

    There is a BIG difference between... "I am having x,y,z problem", and "This thing is a POS"

    Again... just as it is valid to post that you are having issues... it is just as valid to say I am not having issues.

    Bottom line... this is NOT a bitch moan, vent, just post the frack out frustrations. That is NOT what DBSTalk is for.

    If that is what you want to do... head over to forums.directv.com (their official forum).

    If you want help to get past any issues you have...
    To find out what the latest information on the HR20 is...
    or "discuss" the issues you are having...

    Then yes, that is what this forum is for.

    Don't like it...
    No one forced you to type www.dbstalk.com into your webbrowser.... :D
  4. Jan 4, 2007 #4 of 282
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    And yes... bottom line.

    No one was "forced" to get an HR20...
    No one is "forced" to stay with DirecTV if they are not happy... might cost ya to brake your contract, but that is an issue between you and DirecTV.

    You are a consumer/customer just like anyone else... and you do have choices.

    DirecTV has NOT started a proactive swap-out of HR10's for HR20's.
    They have NOT eliminated the H20 as an HD-MPEG-4 receiver

    So the option to go with the HR20 was, "your" choice as a consumer.

    I know it sounds "harsh" and somewhat "rude", but that is what it is.
  5. Jan 4, 2007 #5 of 282

    mnassour Icon

    Apr 23, 2002
    Complete disagreement here, Earl, with no disrespect intended.

    1. DirecTV had a functioning HDDVR.

    2. Due to economic considerations D* discontinued the working model and replaced it with the HR20.

    3. Ergo, if you want to record HD programming off of D*, you have to use a HR20. There's no choice in that.

    Yes, we do have the choice of providers. Yes, we also have the choice of not watching TV at all. But that's not much of a choice, is it? When you had a functioning box and replace it with a buggy one and force your customers to purchase the new box instead of the old, you're not giving customers a choice....especially those who were previously locked into contracts.

    The only "choice" here is D*'s "choice" to (allegedly) make more $$$$ by not having to pay Tivo for the right to use its software. Though, given the issues with the HR20 I'd be amazed if they had seen any cost savings so far.
  6. Jan 4, 2007 #6 of 282
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

    Jun 18, 2006
    Well said.
  7. Jan 4, 2007 #7 of 282

    NYSmoker Icon

    Aug 19, 2006
    I made a choice to "upgrade" to an HR20 that is true. Do I not have a right to expect the equipment to function properly? As far as I, and it seems like many others, are concerned Directv is not living up to their end of the contract and if they ever did admit something was wrong with the receiver the amount of people leaving for free, since they won't be able to fall back on the contract termination
    fee, would be a big hit in the pocketbook. Because of this I really doubt they will ever admit something is wrong with the hardware. So much for "choice".
  8. Jan 4, 2007 #8 of 282

    byron Icon

    Nov 15, 2004
    amen. aimlessly venting in an open message board isn't going to help you or anyone else. if you're unhappy, close your account.... end of story.
  9. Jan 4, 2007 #9 of 282

    Steveknj Icon

    Nov 14, 2006
    I think the HR20 situation is similar to what happens when MS comes out with a new version of Windows. They try and find all the bugs before it goes public, but there is NO doubt that once it goes public, there will be issues. Essentially there is really nothing wrong with the HR20 hardware. It seems, mostly rock solid. Not too many reports of hard drive failures, ports not working etc. The issues are a software problem, and if anyone has ever dealt with software, there are ALWAYS bugs (yes, even on MACS!!). It used to be said that you should never get a version 1.0 of software, well you can consider the HR20 1.0 software. It's a new product and they are working out the kinks. Is is a pain that things don't work correctly, sure it is, but it's the nature of "bleeding edge" technology to have these issues. Yeah, we are all used to our almost flawless Tivos, but people on this forum and others have mentioned that when that came out, it was far from flawless. Hopefully these bugs will be fixed in time for the promised influx of new MPEG4 channels that D* is promising us mid year.

    For the record, I've had my HR20 less than a month, no real major issues. I'm SURE I will have them, just like everyone else, but I understand that D* is aware and fixing, and I'll just have to live with it for now.
  10. Jan 4, 2007 #10 of 282

    Ryanm86 Legend

    Oct 18, 2006
    Well I guess the moral of this story is: Don't piss off Earl!:)
  11. Jan 4, 2007 #11 of 282
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    IMHO... close.

    It would take YEARS if not more, to just recoop the cost of the research/development of the DVR+ series, even if the unit was PERFECT from day one at $3 a month per user. So there must have been more too it, then just $$$ for DirecTV to decide to go their own way.
  12. Jan 4, 2007 #12 of 282
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Jul 12, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Everyone has a choice. I even know people who don't even own a TV, let alone an HR-20. Very clearly, there is the Black Screen Bug that is affecting a lot of people. I knew it would when I noticed it after the latest release (forced release). However, it was also crystal clear to ME that DirecTV chose to enable over-the-air capability before fixing this ominous bug. That would have been a Marketing decision as I'm sure that Engineering would have chosen to fix the problem first.

    In addition, there are hardware issues that happen from time-to-time. Some of these are infant-mortality (bad HDD, etc.) others can be induced by improper setup and others are just bad luck. There are plenty of corrective actions, one of which is to drop DirecTV. If you've truly gotten a bad rap and you want to move on, then by all means go for it. Fight for your refund or vote with your wallet.

    There has been a LOT of shout-outs about how bad the HR20 is performing. To think that DirecTV does NOT know about it is absurd. I'm sure that some of the DirecTV folks read it here, and others read it on their own forum (at DirecTV.com). Surely there are plenty of people calling the call centers voicing a lot of the same concerns. DirecTV knows!

    I enjoy my HR20s. I've been bitten by the BSB twice - both times when left on an HD MPEG2 channel for an extended period of time. I tend to leave my HR20 tuned to an MPEG4 channel while I am away from it. MOST of what I record is MPEG4. It's unfortunate that you are not able to enjoy your HR20 as well.
  13. Jan 4, 2007 #13 of 282
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    It has nothing to do with "pissing" me off.

    If some really "pissed" me off... you would see it.

    This is a discussion forum... part of my "job" as moderator (along with the other moderators)... is to keep things as much as we can on topic.

    Keep things constructive to a relative degree.
    If I wanted to... In about three mouse clicks, I can delete every post in every thread.

    But that is not the purpose of this forum, or DBSTalk.

    And if you think that post "pissed" me off... you haven't seen some of my other "lash-out" posts in the past.. :D
  14. Jan 4, 2007 #14 of 282

    lguvenoz Icon

    Aug 22, 2006
    Here's the simple deal though about the HR20.... The HR10-250 is a functioning DVR with the older offerings from D*.

    If as a consumer you want the new HD Locals or to take advantage of the new MPEG4 content coming out this year, the HR10-250 is not a functioning unit. It is a crippled unit.

    To say that D* did this to all of us to avoid paying Tivo is a fallacy. I do not know of anyone on this forum that was intimately acquainted with the negotiations between the two parties, and companies like Tivo are notorious for trying to extort ridiculous amounts of money from big companies like D* that they feel they can hold hostage.

    Additionally, you really should spend some time on the Tivo Series 3 forums to see how successful they've been with their new HD units. It's definitely not what the HR10-250 was from a reliability perspective.

    The one thing that D* should never have done is release the HR20 when they did, but I understand the need to release something based upon market and revenue demands. If you've ever been involved with the release of a product, many times the sales & marketing arm of the company forces the issue and something goes out the door when it's not ready.
  15. Jan 4, 2007 #15 of 282

    Ryanm86 Legend

    Oct 18, 2006
    I have said it once and I will say it again. Recording Hi definition is a relatively new technology. No one has nailed it. Tivo is close.
  16. Jan 4, 2007 #16 of 282
    Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    For that matter, broadcasting HD is still very new technology. I thank the station engineers who post comments in AVSforums about the troubles they are having. Makes for very interesting case study information on the roll out of complex systems.

  17. Jan 4, 2007 #17 of 282

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

    Mar 18, 2006
    IMHO, it was TiVo's arrogance.

    They thought they had the best DVR, the best interface, the best user experience. What they had was a great engine and a so-so UI.

    D* probably wanted some changes that TiVo was unwilling to make, and so D* sent off on their own.

    Who loses? D* does, TiVo does and more importantly WE DO.:(
  18. Jan 4, 2007 #18 of 282

    solo1026 Legend

    Mar 21, 2006
    Well Said! No disrespect Earl, but these HR20 are not working the way they should be:( And what can I do but be out $600.00:(
    $300.00 for HR20 and $300.00 for cancelling:nono2:
  19. Jan 4, 2007 #19 of 282

    Citivas Godfather

    Oct 25, 2006
    I agree with the original poster. It's not fair or even apples-to-apples to compare the cable companies DVR's to the HR-20. The lousy DVR from Comcast is the only reason I don't save myself $60/month almost the exact same programming and arguably better HD quality and offerings right now. But with DirecTV I already have had a great HD-DVR product for years -- the 10-250. And I am not talking about a feature or interface comparison. I realize that is subjective and people will have their loyalties. But I am talking about basic reliability. The HD-TiVo product for DirecTV was basically rock solid. Sometimes there will be hard drive failures with any DVR product and sometimes there will be bad schedule data, etc. But I have left for 2-3 weeks at a time many times and always come back to 50+ new shows from among 40 season passes just fine. And even the Comcast DVR, which was terrible, was at least basically stable.

    By comparison, the HR-20 for us has been a total dud. It has not successfully recorded more than 5 days in a row without developing the "corruption" that causes any subsequent recordings to be unwatchable until I do the reset button. On top of that, it routinely neglects to record shows because it decided to label them as "cancelled" even though they are not. I even noticed this in advance for the "Survivor" finale and manually set it to record several times. But within minutes each time it was re-classified as "canceled" despite no conflicting shows. My HD-TiVo worked fine. It also decides on its own to record some of the recurring series on the wrong channels that I don't receive. I can go to this day and see that the series link is set for the correct channel, yet again and again it records dead air on the channel I don't get while ignoring the episodes on the channel I do get.

    I realize any such statement is subjective, but these are not "minor" bugs. If the product is so unreliable that consistently cannot count on it to successfully program my shows, that is a fundamental crisis of a problem, not a minor hiccup.

    I also realize not everyone is having these problems. But I am skeptical of those who suggest it is a very small minority either. The surveys on this very site suggest a majority of respondents -- from among hundreds -- have experienced serious error. My anecdotal experience is similar. I have always been a great sales tool for DirecTV and TiVo among my neighbors, friends and colleagues over the years so at any given time, I know a lot of people first hand with these products based on my recommendations. And anyone who has followed me to get this latest product has had similar issues – to the point that I know, for the first time, and told me people not to do it yet. I now tell them if they want an HD-DVR they really only have two viable choices – shell out $800 + monthly fees for the TiVo Series 3 and go with Cable, or live with the lame cable co DVR boxes until something better comes along. I tell them if they don’t require HD recording from their DVR, DirecTV is still a valid choice and that I am “hopeful” there will be a stable solution for it soon – just now right now. Walk Mossberg of the WSJ, one of the most influential technology reviewers in the country, wrote a column last month that basically said the same thing…

    I also don’t buy the idea that we are supposed to be forgiving that this is a new product and they are working out the kinks. By comparison, I got both the original DirecTV-integrated TiVo and the DirecTiVo within the first month of their respective releases and they were in pretty stable shape day-one. So it can be done. It seems like DirecTV rushed an alpha product into the market rather than continue to ship TiVo’s longer. Now, we don’t have a choice to get the TiVo’s unless we want to buy used from the Internet and risk an out of warranty product. So DirecTV really has pushed people into a place where we have no real choice but to live with a severely buggy product unless we leave DirecTV entirely – and years of investment in their hardware across multiple rooms – or live with HD recording.

    I am seriously on the fence about sending my box back and re-installing my old Hughes non-HD DirecTiVo box for my bedroom (where the HR-20 is for now), because it is better overall to reliably know I will have an SD version of a program than to cross my figures and hold out for the 50-50 chance I will have any show with the HD-20.

    BTW, I am not a basher of the concept of the product. I think some of its features are better than the TiVo, and some things are not as good. My beef is simple stability. That said, I am now ready to be flamed by all the die-hards who feel every negative post has to be countered with the same set of 3-4 arguments… Here’s the target for you:

    X :hurah:
  20. Jan 4, 2007 #20 of 282
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    And no one, certainly not me, are saying they "are" functioning the way they should be... for everyone.

    But other then "fixing" them... what else do you want DirecTV to do?
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