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"No one forced you to get an HR20" -- HUH???

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by perilous, Jan 4, 2007.

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  1. Jan 4, 2007 #141 of 282
    Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    I suspect that many of us have been a CSRs simplest and hardest call not only for Directv, but in almost every aspect of our lives. Simplest when they realise "Ok, this person knows something"; hardest when they realize "Oh, oh, this person left my script before he/she dialed the phone". :)

    Shoot, I can't even get the geek squad to acknowledge a service bulletin on my laptop most days, unless I print it out for them. :D

  2. Jan 4, 2007 #142 of 282

    hasan Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    Right on. I ran a small shop for two years (for some owners). We did 12 intake gaskets in the two years I ran the place.....at about a kilobuck each! (and we were cheap, compared to the dealers) Nearly all were just out of warranty, and the problems were WIDELY KNOWN...as you note.

    So, let's forget the car comparison...their stories are much worse, and much more expensive than our electronic toys.

    Stick to being disappointed with the HR20 for whatever reason...there are a few, to be sure. Save us the car stories...those of us that actually worked with the vehicles know what a real POS is...and expensive ones at that!
  3. Jan 4, 2007 #143 of 282

    Citivas Godfather

    Oct 25, 2006
    Have you actually tried this or heard from someone who has? You seem to be implying DirecTV will simply allow it.

    First, you have to wait 80 minutes to even get a person -- I have been on hold for 40 minutes and counting this time (I have given up at 80 min and counting recently) and still have no real person in sight. Then you have to go through the first couple of lame CSR's who know nothing.

    Then you have to convince DirecTV to not only accept the return of the HR-20 (they don't just agree to this) but let you out of both the HR-20 membership commitment but also the movers advantage or new customer membership commitment (all made when they had working HD equipment). No chance, so far.

    But if they really did all this, and refunded a proration of my "lifetime" DVR that I previously paid them and the used value of all my other boxes for my secondary locations that I had to pay for, then yeah, I would consider it fair to say I can just "go elsewhere."

    But I'm still waiting for ANY of the above, let alone all of it. Bottom line: 1) I have made a significant investment in DirecTV hardware and services, from when they had well working products. As it stands, I would have to walk away from that AND pay penalties to leave the membership commitments to go elsewhere to find a working product.
  4. Jan 4, 2007 #144 of 282

    thiscopy AllStar

    Sep 12, 2006
    What was this thread about again?
  5. Jan 4, 2007 #145 of 282

    marksman Godfather

    Dec 23, 2006
    It seems some people want CSR to wave a white flag or something and just blame everything on the box or the software. The problem with that, from a trouble-shooting standpoint, is you end up missing all the people who have other problems besides those directly related to the software. So as Earl mentioned, CSR is not really designed for us. Honestly, if I talk to a CSR for pretty much any electronic device, I humor them. I don't try to get them to stop their spiel, I just do what I can to expedite the process in the nicest way possible. If this means I am standing in my backyard while they think I am switching cables and rebooting my box, so be it.

    But there are people out there who might have the wrong cable wired, or might have a problem that can be solved and resolved by the CSR checklists. So it would be a HUGE mistake to have them discard those issues and just start blaming everything on something that can't be directly addressed. In fact in the scheme of things I suspect the majority of CSR calls still fall under the same umbrella of common problems, much more than some people here would like to believe.
  6. Jan 5, 2007 #146 of 282

    swedishcancerboi AllStar

    Sep 23, 2006
    Wow, you're right, this is ridiculous.

    I liked my cell phone analogy better...

    Seems like there needs to be a 'Ventilation' thread.
  7. Jan 5, 2007 #147 of 282

    paulman182 Hall Of Fame

    Aug 4, 2006
    The car analogies are "driving" Earl crazy!

    Guess we should put the brakes on them.
  8. Jan 5, 2007 #148 of 282

    jerkieman AllStar

    Oct 19, 2006
    I got to admit the way you people defend this product are like radical extremists. I love the whole, oh its 300 bucks but I don’t know anyone who paid that much for it, you can always negotiate that before you buy, etc. This message board is a very small population of the people who have HR20's, do you think they have any idea you can negotiate anything? I think about the average person who has no idea about this board or technology in general, spends 300 bucks on a product that isn’t ready for primetime, and now has no idea what to do. It takes really arrogance on DirecTV’s part to also lock people down into a 2 year commitment when they know the product isn’t ready for primetime. I can’t figure out why people keep apologizing for the product and saying I know it isn’t great yet, but im confident they will get it right. If I knew they didn’t have it right when they released it, I would have waited and got it when it was right.

    I personally got the HR20 so I could have the MPEG4, I don't record shows that often, but out of the 20 or so I have tried to record over a 2 month period, about half of them have failed. DirecTV has been pretty bad with the product from the beginning, with the whole supports OTA, and then when you got it home and hooked it up only then do you realize it supports it but oh by the way its not activated yet.
  9. Jan 5, 2007 #149 of 282

    hasan Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    I edited the <> inside the quote to put the shoe on the other foot.

    Both camps have their "passion driven personalities", and neither of the camps add much meaningful to the discussion.

    Who was it that wrote "....full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."? In any case, the author got that part right. (Faulkner?)
  10. Jan 5, 2007 #150 of 282

    lyonsce Cool Member

    Dec 22, 2006
    For those that say they miss their old HR10, I say, I don't miss mine. After the 6.0a software update, my local FOX network OTA was unwatchable due to the audio drop outs. I was glad to get rid of it. The UI was slow and I hated it. The HR20 to me is much better. Sure there are bugs, but they are being worked and I believe that the unit will be stable soon (I hope). There is not a product out there that has software that works flawlessly for everyone.
  11. Jan 5, 2007 #151 of 282
    Curt Lindner

    Curt Lindner Banned User

    Jul 29, 2003
    Anyone else here a former E* / Dishplayer user?

    I am, and it is that very reason that has me holding off on getting an HR20, and possibly jumping to cable or even back to E*.

    I had 2 Dishplayers, and they basically had all the same types of problems you HR20 owners have been describing. It was so frustrating, it made you want to pull your hair out, if you still had any! They worked great when they worked, and then you lost all of your recordings for no apparent reason. Blue screens, pink screens, we had them all.

    I was a daily (hourly) reader of the DBSForums' Dishplayer Forum. Many of us waited, and waited, for E* to release the magical software update that would cure the units problems. After a time, I decided I was tired of waiting, and made the jump in early 2002 to D* and 3 DirecTivos for a very generous new customer discount. At first, I wondered why there wasn't the same active forum community for these units. Then I realized it was because they just worked, and there was no need to be online talking about them when you could be just watching them.

    I have huge reservations about purchasing an HR20 and getting back into that situation. Deja vu.
  12. Jan 5, 2007 #152 of 282

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2004
    "Radical extremists"? Seems kinda strong. I would think it's easy for people to defend a product when it does what they want with no problems, which is the case for a large number of folks.

    They get defensive when "challenged" that they either don't know what they want, can't possibly be pleased with the HR20, or are called "extremists" and the like.

    A number of us share your pain and your view.

    What's really the most "interesting" is how we've gotten to 150 posts in a thread based on a rant. But hey, these are fun to some I guess. :rolleyes: :lol:
  13. Jan 5, 2007 #153 of 282

    lguvenoz Icon

    Aug 22, 2006
    That's the best part. I've personally enjoyed this thread because people are able to really point out some of the bad things D* has done, but most of all I hope people start calling D* and getting some sort of relief (aka credits) if they are having major problems instead of just posting that the HR20 is a POS.
  14. Jan 5, 2007 #154 of 282

    Citivas Godfather

    Oct 25, 2006
    I'll risk a lot of flaming on this but whatever...

    In terms of the TiVo UI being inferior, that's so subjective that I'll leave it alone.

    But I would like to present a counter POV about the whole 6.0X version of the TiVo unit being buggy and that's all TiVo's fault issue. Frankly, I don't care that TiVo did the code. All I need to know is that the TiVo code was pretty solid for years -- way, way more stable out of the gate than either the HR-20 code is now, or the latest DirecTV TiVo code is. For years. I don't think you can not hold DirecTV responsible for the release of the TiVo code for their boxes. For years, DirecTV has held tight reigns over the code released to their TiVo boxes. We watched as great new TiVo feature and feature was released on the non-DTV boxes only to be told that DirecTV controlled the code release for their boxes and was suppressing those features. Then we were told by D* that they didn't allow the code to be released because they had their only QC that was more stringent that TiVo that they were responsible for. But now, suddenly, it’s all TiVo's fault and D* isn’t responsible for what they release on their D+ boxes?

    The bottom line is DirecTV has only 2 HD DVR options -- frankly more than most providers -- and has released new code on both at approximately the same time that renders both with serious stability issues. D* had the ability to say yes or no to the TiVo code and to control the timing. Even if you forgive their QC of the TiVo code, why risk the timing of the new release around the same time they are releasing another new HD DVR product that is inevitably going to have newborn growing pains? Why not either release the TiVo code way before he HR-20 or delay it until after when they are confident they have a stable new platform to send people to if there are problems? I just don't buy not holding D* responsible for the overall management of this.

    After 52 minutes on hold, I finally got a D* tech last night, BTW. By the time I got to the higher tier people, the guy basically said they are "aware" of the serious recording stability issues with both machines and had no suggestions to offer other than waiting for the software fixes. He basically said I had to accept that I couldn't count on pre-scheduled DVR functionality on either machine right now and there was no point in replacing either since they were known issues affecting most users. He said the 10-250 at least could still be relied on when manually set to record, so he recommended I focus on that (and this was the D* rep basically saying a half-functioning 10-250 was better than the status of the HR-20 right now)...
  15. Jan 5, 2007 #155 of 282

    DStern Cool Member

    Nov 11, 2006
    LOL - Best count yourself in the "some" - This is your second post on this thread just pointing out how silly the thread is.
  16. Jan 5, 2007 #156 of 282

    Citivas Godfather

    Oct 25, 2006
    BTW, D* also refused to allow me to return the HR-20 for a refund or cancel my new contract that was a result of getting it, even though they admit it doesn't work right now. And they didn't offer a dime in programming credits, even when I asked... So to the original point of this thread about whether they are "forcing" people to use this unstable box, that feels like forced to me. If I buy something at the store and it doesn't work as advertised, I can return it. If they sell me a bill of goods and don't deliver but then say I'm stuck with it, that's seems like forced to me...
  17. Jan 5, 2007 #157 of 282

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2004
    I was. I just figured this would die a faster death than it has...
  18. Jan 5, 2007 #158 of 282

    Citivas Godfather

    Oct 25, 2006
    An hour on the phone with D8 didn't get me jack. They admitted striaght up that the HR-20 was having a fatal stability issue with shows not recording but said I would have to wait indefinitely (as in we don't know when it will be or how soon)for the software fix. No credits, no option to return, despite the fact that the box and contract are only 6 weeks old and I have registered complaints about its unstable functionality from the first days with them, but initially acceppted their "we're on it" excuse since my 10-250 was working...
  19. Jan 5, 2007 #159 of 282

    perilous Legend

    Sep 4, 2006
    From the originator of this "well-intentioned" thread...Thank you, well-stated!! :)
  20. Jan 5, 2007 #160 of 282
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    Never said it was all "TiVo, Inc's" fault.... DirecTV does have to share some of the responsiblity for letting the 6.x release to go out.

    But ultimately... yes... they wrote it.
    But again... if DirecTV sat on it for ANOTHER 6-12 months...
    What do you think the forum boards and the media people would be saying...

    Not that TiVo hasn't gotten a propper version working... but that DirecTV is deliberatly trying to make people switch.

    And regardless what "higher tier" people say on the CSR tier... they are "aware" of the issues today... they certainly where not "aware" of them when the first version went out.

    As show by the "differences" in 6.3a and 6.3b... 1 file changed... to address the audio issues. That is it.

    As for a 6.3c or any other "future" future... right now that is in TiVo, Inc's court... bottom line.. that is where it is... DirecTV can't do anything without TiVo's assistance.

    As for a half-functioning HR10-250 being better then HR20...... everyone is allowed their own opinion.

    If anyone shoudl learn anything from this forum, and others.

    There is a significant "disconnect" between the technology teams and the CSR tier at DirecTV... they are not on the same page... and sometimes I wonder if they are using the same book. Don't know why... just is... and has been that way pretty much since the start.

    I do know that they are trying to correct that issue. I have heard from a lot of CSRs that have been spending a lot of time in training sessions. But they are just a small handfull of the entire CSR force... so....

    One other "major" concern for the HR10's.... It is not effecting "everyone" either. Just like the HR20.... So there must be factors in play, that even a "lab" can't recreate.... Then you mix in all those that have "tweaked" version.
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