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*** Non-HD HD Channels List ***

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by parzec, Feb 21, 2008.

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  1. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I completely aggree with you whole heartedly.

    I don't care where the bars are. I just want the picture unaltered.

    However, there are 3 things that I can't get over.
    1. When you have show, obviously in 16x9, and it's shown letterbox/pillarbox. ScifiHD is good for this. It's like that Stargate Atlantis that you've already seen in 16x9 HD and it's letterboxed for a 4x3 screen giving you this minature 16x9 picture. The aspect ratio is, technically, unaltered...all I can say is WHY!! :mad:
    2. Content that seems to be formatted for 14x9. Small pillarbox with the top & bottom cut off ala SciHD/HistHD etc.
    3. Stretch-O-Vision...4x3 content stretched to fit with that extreme stretch on either end...TNTHD/TBSHD.
    Stretch-O-Vision must die! :ramblinon :bad_nono: :box:

    Mike
     
  2. msmith198025

    msmith198025 Member of the Year

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    You both said basically the same thing. The plasma gas "decaying" causes the panel to lose brightness. Your quoted article just gave a little more detail. As far the time frame, that can vary depending on the source that you get your information from. 14 years is probably a little more accurate than 27, but both are a really long time for a tv IMO.
     
  3. joed32

    joed32 Hall Of Fame

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    All movies are shot with film. When a broadcaster sends a signal to your HDTV do you think the picture is better than the original film he is sending? Film is better than HD so if your TV PQ is anywhere close to being as good as the original film you are getting the best you can get. Old TV shows are a different matter.
     
  4. parzec

    parzec Cool Member

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    I believe you are correct on this point. I have not found any verification of a specific True-HD Concert on MTV, but MHD regularly has true HD concert broadcasts so I believe the poster may have been confused. MTV will revert to non-HD status on the list. What is most interesting about MTV-HD is they broadcast 16:9 content, but letter box and pillar box it so it does not fill the whole screen. It appears they do not yet have the technology to broadcast 16:9-Full-Screen Original HD content ***Hereafter referred to as "True-HD" content *** I Will wait for proof by verifiable Time/Date/Program Listing counter-example before modifying the status of MTV-HD or any other "HD" channel to "True-HD" status in the future.

    Thanks again the vigilance of all posters awaiting the first "True-HD" broadcasts from these stations!
     
  5. hbkbiggestfan

    hbkbiggestfan Godfather

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    I acknowledge all of everyones points on True HD. I now understand more from the film vs. video point-of-view, although I already knew film could easily be transitioned to HD just because of all the movies from the past several decades that air in HD right now and are sold on HD DVD/Blu-Ray. I didn't know Seinfeld was actually shot on film (although I love that show and have always noticed a difference in the appearance of the show from most other sit-coms).........But I just still CAN NOT consider anything from the late 1990's and earlier (Pre-HD era) True High-Def. They still are really just a whole bunch of upconverts IMO. Close, but not True HD. However I DO NOT take this for granted. The quality is still far better than watching the SD channel feeds of these networks in crappy 480i on a LCD HDTV. Like I've said before, MUCH MUCH Better quality (Quality meant for an HDTV set), but I personally will not consider these HD...... One more point, If all these old programs in 4:3 are considered HD why aren't they listed by their networks or D* as High-Def in program guides? (Exception: TBS...Stretch-O-Vision)
     
  6. Thaedron

    Thaedron Hall Of Fame

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    Most relevant comment in this entire thread IMHO.
     
  7. Kansas Zephyr

    Kansas Zephyr Hall Of Fame

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    It's not an "up-convert" if the source material exceeds the resolution of HD. (Film)

    It's actually a down-conversion, in those cases. ;)
     
  8. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    There is a trick to that.... What some manufactures do is they refocus the CRT beams into just a 16X9 ratio in order to get the full resolution required to show HD... They do not make a set that can show full hd in 16X9 format, plus addition pixes on the top and bottom for a 4X3 image.
     
  9. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    You shouldn't say LCD's are superior to plasmas in overall longevity, because the reality is that both sets are more likely to have a problem with the electronics inside of them before the bulbs in an lcd or the brightness of the plasma really diminishes to a truly noticeable point.... I believe the easiest way to explain the life and qualities of todays plasmas is to say that they will basically behave like todays CRT based tv's, because they will..... And does anyone on this site, have, or know anyone that has a tv that is 8 years or older that they are using as their MAIN tv? I doubt many if any....
     
  10. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Few people on this site are likely to have an 8 year old TV as their main as we all upgrade on a monthly basis. :)

    My son had a 15 year old Toshiba as his main until last month when it decided to RIP. (Rest in place.) Too big too move at this point. :)

    My main is right at 7 years, paid the most of my HDTVs, is the biggest of my HDTVs, and still looks great. (But no HDMI, so I will be looking for a new main later this summer when some new cool front projectors start coming out.) :)

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  11. ccr1958

    ccr1958 Hall Of Fame

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    how does one know if a source is video or film....
    the reason i ask is the ps3 & hddvd players have
    a film/video/auto selection in the menu....my HDTV
    has film/video but no auto setting....what is this to be set
    at for best PQ & how does any of these devices know
    what the setting should be(hence auto)...i do notice on
    the HDTV that the film/video is grayed out & set to film
    when in 720p or 1080i mode....but if i am in 480i mode & set it to video
    it will remain grayed out in video mode on 720 & 1080...this setting
    is the most confusing to me every since i went HD 2.5 years ago....
     
  12. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    All right, time for my 2 cents...

    True HD by definition is going to be an image that
    a) is presented on your HD TV in 16X9 form. Yes, this is required, technically.
    b)has a resolution equaling the ATSC standard equal to or greater than 720P or 1080i when displayed on your HDTV.
    c) the image has been derived from a source that can supply at least HD technical specs quality image or better. (the image can never have been at a low resolution, anywhere in this process before reaching your eyes)
    d) Has not had any altering of the original aspect ration. (this does not rule out cropping)

    That's a realistic definition for anything you are looking at, except for programs shot long ago on film in 4X3 ratio.... I believe that a transfer of Gone With the Wind to HD would be considered HD, because of the following... The space on the left and right of the picture that would be pillar bars exist only because nothing was ever there, and that there is no change or resolution that the film is being scanned from, i.e. no downgrading. I look at this as more of a large over scan, because you are loosing absolutly nothing in terms of picture resolution, and if you put that image up against any film transfer in HD today, the only difference is how much of the screen is used, not the actual resolution that is used for any given square inch of image that is actually present... You can also use that argument for explaining why showing a film that is shot in 1:2.35 aspect ratio is still HD even though it has small pillar bars on the top and bottom of the screen. However, that image, if coming from film, could also be cropped to 16X9 and still give you a resolution of HD because its from film. You just wouldn't get to see the entire picture that was originally shot, and you haven't altered its aspect ratio... This argument can also be used for Sitcoms and other tv shows shot on film being transfer to HD, but as far as I know, NO shows shot on film have ever been transfered to HD after they aired in only SD, i.e. I have never seen a HD transfer of Friends or Seinfeld, and frankly, I don't think we ever will....
     
  13. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I have the last analogue 40" TUBE Mitsubishi ever made.. Talk about heavy. I'd probably replace it if it weren't so heavy...:)

    Tom, are you going to wait and see what Mitsubishi's new Laser TV's look like? I am very intrigued by the possibilities of this technology...:D
     
  14. sore_bluto

    sore_bluto Godfather

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    I hate to keep ringing the same bell here, but I will. Northern Exposure and Hogans Heros were both shown on TV in SD, yet were filmed. Both of these shows were shown in 16:9 1080i HD. Northern Exposure was in the form of a 4:3 picture with pillar bars added. Hogans Heros was slightly cropped. Both of these shows were true HD when shown on Universal HD and HDnet.
     
  15. ccr1958

    ccr1958 Hall Of Fame

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    HDNet showed Charlies Angels in full screen 1080i @ 7am ct
    for a while too....
     
  16. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    They sound awesome! But given that Mitsubishi broke their "Promise" on the big CRT-RP I have today, I won't buy ANYTHING from Mistubishi until they actively resolve the problem.

    (The local TV repair gentleman I use told me that two years ago Mitsubishi service dropped way, way off as well.)

    But PrismProjection is coming out with an LED front projector that also sounds unbelievably awesome. I met their Chief Innovations Officer at CES, had an excellent talk with him. Can't wait for their production launch.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  17. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Your right, sorry, but I must say that they may be the only two.... I sometimes wonder if they don' transfer shows like Friends because of contractual issues with the actors.. This is a very real possibility...
     
  18. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I used to work for Good Guys, and I could go on for ages about why Mitsubishi is the way it is today vs. a couple years ago, and when we went away, it hurt them more... Sorry to hear about your Promise... I'd offer you help, but I have lost most all my connections.. And if I keep talking this will go way to far of topic!!!! :D
     
  19. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    I have one of the first HDTV's ever made by Mitsubishi - a 65" RPTV monster that is my main TV, it's 7,8, or 9 years old, I don't recall at the moment. I plan to run it until it dies. At the moment, I have not seen technology that surpasses its capabilities without other drawbacks. I have two LCD TV's (42"). I don't like the overly-digital color banding. My dad has a plasma, it's nice, but it does not seem to have the DR my RPTV does.

    As Tom says, there are some promising technologies coming, but I feel you can't beat a tube for all around capabilities with LCD or Plasma just yet, overscan aside.

     
  20. Tom Servo

    Tom Servo Icon

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    I can name a few more "faux HD" channels: CSTV and Fuel. CSTV is (poorly) upconverted SD in stretch-o-vision, and Fuel is upconverted and unstretched SD. Haven't seen anything in "true" HD yet on either channel.

    Cartoon Network hasn't shown any true HD that I can see; I check it on a semi-regular basis to see if things change, but they don't.

    It's all SD upconverted and then stretched to look as awful as possible. And I am not for certain, but I believe they and TBS use a mild form of nonlinear stretching similar to what TNT does with SD programs.

    It's okay to me at this point that we're getting SD upconverted feeds in place of 'true HD' on some of these channels, but the stretching that TBS and Cartoon Network do (along with Bio.tv, History, A&E and the others with some HD content) is just god-awful.

    Frankly, however, I'd rather DirecTV restore the great PQ they had a decade ago on SD channels and let EVERYONE enjoy a better picture on channels like Nick, MTV, VH-1 and CMT instead of wasting space in the HD realm. All the channels in this list seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to upgrade their facilities to air any "true HD" programming. The ones that maintain the original aspect ratio at least get a little pass for not screwing with the picture, but the rest are truly wastes.

    As for TBS, it seems if they can show baseball, awards shows and that Ellen special in HD, then why can't they get HD copies of movies like TNT does?

    I'm totally with you on stretch-o-vision, Mike. :mad:

    I had heard, probably on these forums, that the reason Sci-Fi doesn't show "full HD" of programs like Dead Like Me or ST:Enterprise is because the HD rights are negotiated separately; those two shows' HD rights belong to HDNet only, or some such.

    14x9 - isn't that what the Discovery networks do when they don't have HD? It cuts off a little of the top and bottom, which reduces the size of the pillar bars. It's a liveable compromise for the programs, but the commercials lose some of their "small print" at the bottom of the screen.

    It is also my understanding that many programs are shot to be "14x9" safe, much as a previous posted noted that many 16x9 programs are shot to be "4x3" safe. I believe most of the BBC's content until recently has been shot as "14x9 safe" for some reason.

    You can add (the original) Knight Rider to that, as well. Freaked me out when I first saw it, but the PQ was really good--so good that it made the props look even more fake than ever! :lol:

    Color-banding is also a by-product of the heavy compression (even with HD) that is used. My bedroom setup has me watching HD channels on an SD TV through the component cables, and the color banding is noticeable on certain programs. On SD channels, it's unmissable.
     
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