Not sure why only certain HD signals drop off on tuner 2

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by mailiang, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. Mar 6, 2016 #1 of 27
    mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    I have a Directv slimline dish and an R22 DVR. When doing a system check I get a 43-149 code, but I have no reception issues at the time. When checking satellites 99 and 103, I find a difference in signal levels between tuner 1 and tuner 2, but only on certain transponders. For example, 99ca shows all transponders in the mid 90's with tuner 1, with tuner 2 it shows 3 transponders at 82 or below. My spot satellite 101 shows both tuners pretty much at the same levels which range anywhere from 93 to 100. Can anyone here explain why I'm getting different levels from each tuner, but only on 99 and103 ca/cb, and only from certain transponders? Thanks.


    Ian :confused:
     
  2. Mar 6, 2016 #2 of 27
    alnielsen

    alnielsen Godfather

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    Error 43: Installation Verification Failure. Caused by low signal or distribution problem. - Troubleshoot cause of low signal.

    I have no idea on why there is such a big difference in tuner signal strength. Coax connectors?
     
  3. Mar 6, 2016 #3 of 27
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Is that your only receiver? I assume you probably don't have SWM (i.e. you have two cables into the R22) If so you can try swapping them and see if it is now tuner 1 that's a bit low.

    There are possible causes but I wouldn't worry about it too much since it won't matter for picture quality, just that rain fade might hit a tiny bit earlier on the second tuner. If you post your readings from 99ca 99cb 103ca 103cb and confirm whether or not you're using SWM (i.e. one or two coax cables connected to the R22) we might be able to figure out the cause and a fix.
     
  4. Mar 6, 2016 #4 of 27
    mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    Two cables, one for each turner. Keep in mind that signal levels for both tuners are the same on 101 where I'm getting 97-100. 9 transponders on both tuners are reading 100. 103ca actually shows tuner 1 lower on transponder 2. However, 103cb and 99cb show three transponders with lower levels on tuner 2. We are talking about a difference of +/- 10 %. If this was a cable or tuner issue it would show lower levels across the board on one tuner or the other. This makes no sense to me. My wife is watching TV in the bedroom where I'm also getting the same trouble code of 43-149. I haven't had a chance to check the signal levels on the R22 in that room, but I will when I have a chance. I have a feeling I'll get the same results. So far I haven't seen any issues, but like many members here I would be nice to know why I'm getting different levels on different tuners but only on certain transponders.

    Ian
     
  5. Mar 7, 2016 #5 of 27
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    The signal levels aren't in db, they're calculated by the receiver from the signal to noise ratio. The way the numbers work once you get above 95 or so it takes a big difference in signal to get another number - so the difference between 98 and 99 is roughly equal to the difference between 85 and 95. That's why you don't see much difference on 101 which also uses a different frequency so the numbers aren't directly comparable to 99 and 103 anyway.

    The best way to 'fix' this (i.e. get consistent readings between tuners) is to replace the LNB in your dish with a SWM LNB. Though in reality like I said it doesn't matter too much, so if you don't want to buy a new LNB and replace it yourself you can leave it as is. Directv will not consider this an issue that needs fixing, because it isn't affecting your reception or picture quality at all.
     
  6. Mar 7, 2016 #6 of 27
    mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    Spoke to a Directv tech today. Due to higher bandwidth requirements, HD levels are not always balanced. The amount of signal going to each tuner is controlled by the switch and dependent on demand. For example, If you are just watching and not recording, the tuner being used may take priority and show a higher signal output. As far as the 43 code I was receiving, since I'm not getting any searching for satellite codes and my signal levels are fine, it is not uncommon for my R22 to produce an erroneous report at times. Thanks for your replies.

    Ian

    PS: I edited my earlier post to reflect % rather then DB. My bad. ;)
     
  7. Mar 7, 2016 #7 of 27
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    What are the actual value differences you are seeing?

    And contrary to what you said a cable can absolutely make the difference in the signal. I have seen a cable that was no belief in by a mouse have perfect signal for some transponders still and zero signal for others. It can happen. ;)
     
  8. Mar 7, 2016 #8 of 27
    mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    I've seen differences that range from 2 to over 20%, however, I can't see how a bad cable can cause a signal level drop on one transponder but not on another, at the same time.

    Ian
     
  9. Mar 7, 2016 #9 of 27
    HoTat2

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    Ah ... well ... if he says so I guess. But I've never heard of anything like that before. Much less really makes any sense.

    However, anyway as was stated, since you aren't having any 771 signal loss error messages don't sweat it then ...



    Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk
     
  10. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so 20% ... do you mean difference on the same transponder on different tuners be 100 and then the other be 80? Thats a huge difference... do you mean 60 and 65? That's not that big a difference but is a real low signal in the first place...

    Also what transponders from what satellites can make a difference too. For some bizarre reason some of my receivers will show very wide ranging signal numbers for some of the spot beams that are not for my area, but since they aren't for my area, they are to be ignored.

    First you have an older system. that means that each tuner has its own cable form the multiswitch. if one where hurt and the other not, that can cause your signal difference. Also, if its on certain satellites you see this, it could also be your bbcs failing and causing the issue. hence the suggestion earlier about swapping ports and seeing if your signal issues follow each other. You'd also want to swap bbcs at some point too.

    As for a bad cable causing a signal drop on some transponders and not the other.. in the most basic way I can think to say it... its because every transponder on a satellite uses different frequencies. So some frequencies may be hurt by a damaged cable more than others. I have seen it with my own eyes, unfortunately. Drove me nuts for quite a while till I finally pulled a new cable and inspected the damaged one after I had it out of the attic it was in and discovered the issue. I tested that cable again on a different run and it exhibited the same issues.

    This would not be quite the same if you where on a swim system. but you aren't on a swim system.

    What would really be most helpful, is if you posted all your signal strengths from both tuners and all sats, so we can get a much clearer picture of what you are seeing.
     
  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Come on, you and I both know that was a line to get him off the phone... ;D
     
  12. mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    Actually he did most of the talking. :biggrin: Also, both HD DVR's are having this issue. Since they are pretty old, they agreed to replace all the cables and do a full system check. I'll post the results afterwards. Thanks for your input. No pun intended. ;)


    Ian
     
  13. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Well if it's both receivers exhibiting the exact same issue then I tend to think its the lnb or if you have a multi switch then it's either the lnb the multi switch or the wires from the lnb to the multi switch.

    If an installer comes out to redo things he should just move you to a new dish and swim. :)

    Be interesting to see what happens!

    You never really posted your full setup. What is the other reciever and do you know which dish it is? It's not a side car is it?
     
  14. mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    I agree, it's probably related to the switch or LNBF. but to play it safe I'm replacing all the cables regardless. I mentioned in my first post I was using a slim-line dish and a R22, and in my second post I mentioned that I had another R22 DVR in the bedroom. ;) I also have two R15 DVR's which exhibit no issues. I'm not interested in a Genie at this point since my wife and I watch a lot of different programing which I would like to keep separate. They need to incorporate separate profiles and Que's for each viewer, like they do with Netflix. Until then, I'm happy with my current set up.

    Ian
     
  15. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Awh I see now. Yeah probably a good route to go.

    Well I personally would kill the two r15 and get one genie and one mini. Keep the r22s. You can still keep everything separate that way... Assuming you both split the four dvrs today... And you lose nothing. In fact you'd gain one tuner. And get all Hi Definition everywhere for those other tvs.

    I don't believe the r15 is swim so should be interesting. They may want to swap those two units to r16 and go swim. Should be interesting.
     
  16. mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    I doubt they will be upgrading anything. The two R15's are not swim and were replaced for free about a year ago and I haven't had a contract in almost 8 years. This is merely a service call, not an installation. FWIW, both R15 are connected to my old CRT's, one in my kitchen and the other in the spare room. They don't get a lot of use. Also, SD content on my low mileage Panasonic CRT looks a lot better then on my Panasonic S60 plasma. Scaling SD content on an HD TV sucks. :nono2: :D I will talk to the tech about replacing the R15's with 16's and going swim. Less cables, less labor. ;) Thanks.

    Ian
     
  17. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but scaling Hi Definition to SD tvs looks great as long as the aspect ratio is ok.

    Some SD stations defentily scale better than others depending on the tv and the station...

    I'm surprised you where able to get r15s. SD is on its way out in terms of boxes... But non swim has been on the way out even longer.

    And if it's an issue with the multi switch I don't think they will have a choice. I don't think they are allowed to replace or instal wb68s anymore. That was something an installer posted quite a while back. But then who knows with all the different contractors vs O&O and changing the rules sometimes...

    They could always install a swim16 and use its legacy out ports for the r15s....

    Good luck and can't wait to hear how it goes!
     
  18. Masshole1225

    Masshole1225 New Member

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    I can definitely replace and install 6x8s so yep, ever changing rules :p although I pretty much only take them out when converting to swm. best of luck, hope the tech has an r16 on his van!
     
  19. mailiang

    mailiang Legend

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    Unfortunately repair techs don't carry DVR's. That being said, the tech thought it was most likely the switch that was causing the problem and agreed that the cables should also be replaced. He recommended a swim re-build, but I had to get it approved by customer retention since I don't have a service contract. I'm a long time customer, (10yrs) my equipment needs to be replaced, and I insisted that I shouldn't be penalized for that. ;) They agreed to ship out two new DVR's to replace my antiquated R15's and set up a new service call for next week. There will be no charge. They are not sure which model will be sent, but it must be swim compatible. (Probably R16's or R22's).

    Ian
     
  20. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Progress!
     

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