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Now that the D11 Bird is up and running, there are new installation options

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by jwd45244, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. jwd45244

    jwd45244 Hall Of Fame

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    Setting up a standard 5LNB dish requires line of sight to the 99, 101, 103, 110, and 119 birds. If people have issues with LOS it is often with 110 and or 119.

    Now the D11 is up and running, we have some more options. Assuming the person does not get their locals from either the 110 or 119, you can install a 5LNB Dish using the aiming for a Slimline 3. The Slimline 3 only has one LNB horn and only sees the 99, 101, 103 birds.

    If you setup a Slimline but use the settings for the Slimline 3, you may be able to do the install.

    I have verified this with each of my receivers and for my market (Cincinnati), I lose nothing but the MPEG-2 Channels.
     
  2. flipptyfloppity

    flipptyfloppity New Member

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    I read on here that didn't work because the slim3 muxes the satellite differently than the slim5.
     
  3. RobertE

    RobertE New Member

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    Bad, bad advice.

    From everything I have read (internal docs) the SL3 uses a slightly different stack plan while still maintaining computability with current switches. That stack plan changes the way and where the guide information comes down the line from the LNB.

    What is not known at this time what sort of mid to long term affects it may have on the rest of your system.

    Please everyone, use the proper settings.
     
  4. mattmill

    mattmill Legend

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    What about a SL5 installed without LOS for 119 and then when the SL3 is available to purchase (assuming it will be), just switching the LNB? Is the aim the same?

    matt
     
  5. techrep

    techrep Hall Of Fame

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    SL5 points to sat 101 and SL3 will point to sat 101. I imagine that the tilt may change or not.
     
  6. Tiger62

    Tiger62 Godfather

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    Not saying you're wrong, but why would the tilt change...the satellites are all still in the same arc.
     
  7. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Tilt is mostly needed for 110 and 119. I've twisted the tilt on my 5 LNB Slimline dish 30+ degrees off and not had a problem with 99/101/103, just lost 110 and 119.

    That's not to say you shouldn't align the tilt correctly, but if it is even remotely close it should be good for the 3-LNB.

    Carl
     
  8. techrep

    techrep Hall Of Fame

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    How could I be wrong. :lol: The tilt setting is a "compromise" mainly for sat 119. I am allready "fudging" the tilt setting, -5* on my SL5 dish, to pick up 3-4 points in signal strength on sat 99c.

    I suspect that the SL3 will not need the same tilt setting as it does not use sats 119 or 110.

    There is a SL3 option in setup on the HR20 series but, I have not done a "repeat setup" to see what the SL3 rough point values are.
     
  9. jwd45244

    jwd45244 Hall Of Fame

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    Ok, but all I know is that it works. I have not read any internal docs. I actually tried it.
     
  10. evan_s

    evan_s Hall Of Fame

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    It doesn't immediately blow up and stop working but it is definitely not a good idea.

    A SL3 places 101 on the stack plan in place of 110/119 so that guide data is available on the tone options. A SL5 dish set as a SL3 in the receiver won't be doing this so you will have no guide data updates coming when you are tuned to a channel coming from 103. This can cause gaps in the guide data farther out or missing last minute updates to guide data. The effects of missing last minute guide updates may not be obvious but can cause missed recordings or other reliability issues.
     
  11. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The only advantage setting up as an SL3 has when you actually have an SL5 is it removes all the 110/119 channels from your guide so you can't see/select them. But the guide problem that evan_s mentions is still there.
    You can fix the guide problem by making sure your receiver/DVR is tuned to 101 at regular intervals. So for a receiver, you need to set up a daily autotune for say 3am to a channel transmitted from 101. For the DVR, you need to set up two short manual recordings for say 3am, both to channels on 101. This is because tuner 1 on the DVR processes guide data and recording two programs simultaneously is the only way to be sure tuner 1 is tuned to a 101 channel.
     
  12. Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    I would assume so as it is in the same place on the LNB arm. Currently the 99, 101, 103 feed horn is right in the center with the SL5, the same place it is on the SL3.
     
  13. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

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    You don't need to be tuned to a 101 channel to get the 101 guide data. You just need to be tuned to a channel that is included in the same stack as 101... i.e. the 18v no tone or 13v no tone selected stacks, which includes the new HD channels on D11 at 99, so setting up an SL5 as if it is an SL3 would only cause missing guide data if you never tuned to any SD channel on 101, AND never tuned to any of the half of the HD channels that are on 99.... a very unlikely scenario.

    While it's not a perfect solution, you probably won't ever have any guide data issues if you use an SL5 as if it's an SL3.
     
  14. bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    Bainbridge...
    If one uses a SWM (SWMline or external), there will be no problems getting the guide data.
     
  15. jwd45244

    jwd45244 Hall Of Fame

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    Again, the purpose of my post was to show that in cases where there are LOS issues with 110 and / or 119, the Slimline 5 could still be installed.

    Is it ideal? No. The best case would be to have a Slimline3 or SWMLine. If you don't have either of these, then setting up a SL5 as an SL3 would be better than not doing the install at all.
     
  16. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, a channel on 99 will do. But I disagree with your last comment. We get posts from many people who are losing their guide data because they don't tune to a 101 (or 99) channel. It is certainly not an unlikely scenario. (Almost all my own TV watching is HD from 103). That will become less frequent as more HD channels appear on 99 but is still an issue.
     
  17. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

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    I agree, it's possibly a problem, but I haven’t seen all that many posts from people who lost their guide data because of it, and most of the few that there have been were obviously pre-D11 going online at 99. Still, most people who like you watch "almost all" channels from 103 will be covered by the occasional tuning to a 101 channel, and as you pointed out in an earlier post, there is an easy workaround to get the guide data for people who absolutely watch and record nothing but 103 channels.

    I’m wondering why they didn’t just put the guide data on 103 too. It’s got to be a trivial amount of data compared to the HD video streams, and that seems to be a better idea than the solution that they chose to get the guide data to the SL3 dish users.
     
  18. evan_s

    evan_s Hall Of Fame

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    Guide data on 103 has a problem. Any unit that uses the BBC (everything but a h23 currently) can only access either the Ka Hi or KA lo but not both at the same time. So anyone who had a local on 103 would still be unable to see the guide data when watching a local unless they added it to both the conus and every spot. That sounds like a lot of work to me and probably a bit of wasted bandwidth.
     
  19. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    I am a "technical guide" over at the DirecTV forums and we have had many of these missing guide data issues posted - but as more channels end up on 99 this will certainly become less of an issue. Right now there are so few national HD channels on 99 it continues to be a problem.
    In my case I can see 119 fine (there aren't that many big trees in most of Dallas!) but since I have two DVRs that just record from 103 channels right now (my HD locals are on 103 for example) and that I virtually never use for live TV, they would lose their guide data very quickly if I did not have clear line-of-sight to 119.
    I was going to respond to the "guide data on 103" question but I see that evan_s responded with the appropriate answer before me :)
     
  20. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Another answer is to use a SWM with an SL5. The SWM also sends 101 guide data down the guide channel.

    If the receiver doesn't get guide data because all tuners are on 103°, the receiver will reboot after a day or so.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     

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