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Obesity Is A Disease

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Drucifer, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Jun 20, 2013 #41 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    In most cases DUI is a "misdemeanor" but with some cases can be a "felony". DUI is not a "disease" nor is everyone charged with DUI a alcoholic or drug addict. Whether they are addicts or not the fact remains, they "chose" to drink and drive. They "chose" to use drugs and drive.
     
  2. Jun 20, 2013 #42 of 114
    houskamp

    houskamp Active Member

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    real problem I see is if you really have a problem making you overweight there are already classifications for those.. this just gives the ones who don't really have a problem (besides not caring/lazy) an excuse..
     
  3. Jun 21, 2013 #43 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Alcoholism is a disease ... many who drink have the disease. Some have managed to beat the disease and recover.
    A DUI is not a disease. (I never said it was.) It is a crime often committed by alcoholics. People with a disease.

    Having a disease does not excuse behavior. Having a disease is not a free pass. Calling something a disease helps recognize it is something that can be helped by medical science.
     
  4. Jun 21, 2013 #44 of 114
    djlong

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    I have alcoholics in the family and they use the "it's a disease" term as a crutch. That's why I say "Show me the pathogen".

    When I get the flu, I have a disease. When my aunt is passed out from Pabst Blue Ribbon, that's not a disease.

    That's not to say there aren't things that contribute - even genetics that might make someone more susceptible to addictive behavior. But those aren't diseases.

    My mother's mental illness was called Munchausen Syndrome. Not Munchausen's Disease.
     
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  5. Jun 21, 2013 #45 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    We're living in a era where words are redefined to suit one's fancy.
     
  6. Jun 21, 2013 #46 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Every day since a word was first uttered has been part of that era. Language is a living organism.
     
  7. Jun 22, 2013 #47 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Per Webster......Language: Communication of thoughts and feelings through a system of arbitrary signals, such as voice sounds, gestures, or written symbols. Doesn't mention it being a "living organism". Looks like you've changed the definition to suit your fancy. :sure:
     
  8. Jun 22, 2013 #48 of 114
    SamC

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    Exactly. My father was an alcoholic. It is not a "disease". It is a lifestyle choice. He would rather be drunk than not. Just like some people would rather go to a baseball game than a hockey game or would rather eat candy than carrots. Really that simple.

    The whole "its a disease" is 100% a crutch. Self-destructive lifestyle choices are still choices. And a choice is a choice.
     
  9. Jun 22, 2013 #49 of 114
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    At the same time, I know dozens of people who subscribe to the disease theory of alcoholism and distinctly do not use it as a crutch.

    Anyway, back to the topic of obesity. Last night I was in a very fine SF restaurant and two women were seated next to us. One was obese and the other morbidly so. They both ate all the bread, and ordered fries with their light orders of fresh fish. We left before desserts happened. No point. Just a story.
     
  10. Jun 22, 2013 #50 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Per Webster? The definition you offer does not appear on the Merriam Webster website. Perhaps you have taken it from an old print dictionary that has changed?

    A similar definition to the one you offered appears among others on Dictionary.com.

    I am glad you chose a definition including the word arbitrary: "based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something". Apparently your individual preference is different than mine.


    Language is a living organism. Obesity is a disease. Deal with it.
     
  11. Jun 22, 2013 #51 of 114
    James Long

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    As I've noted (but perhaps got lost in other words) I do not see the designation as a disease as an excuse not to solve the problem. Having alcoholism and obesity listed as diseases puts both in line for medical treatment. Conditions that should be taken more seriously by the medical community. If one has a disease the medical community should help you.

    If obesity is not a disease what is the medical community doing trying to treat it? Isn't their job to treat diseases and injuries? The whole field of bariatric medicine is lost if obesity is not a disease. And serious medical practitioners trying to prolong life are reduced to providing cosmetic services. Just making people look and feel better and not going after a disease?

    It is past time to take obesity seriously and call it a disease.
     
  12. Jun 22, 2013 #52 of 114
    Rich

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    So, not to be a hypocrite, I started counting calories after I posted the above. I'm now down to 241 pounds and not obese anymore! Just overweight. Give me a few weeks and I should be below that level.

    Rich
     
  13. Jun 22, 2013 #53 of 114
    SamC

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    Because words associated with "disease" are words like "victim" as "Joe Blow, cancer victim, died yesterday..." and "caught" as "Jane can't come to the party, she caught the flu" and "sick" as "Jimmy missed work sick last week". It is a blame free word.

    Except for a very few people relative to a very few diseases (a thankfully tiny number and declining number of people relative to AIDS, and a sadly growing number of people relative to cancer, particularly lung cancer) you don't blame people for having a disease. Its bad luck. A low number in life's lottery. Fate. Kismet. Karma. Whatever you want to call it.

    If you are a fat***, or a drunk, or an degenerate gambler, and such its because you lack the moral courage to not be so. You are presented with a product or activity most people use in a responsible way, and you use it in an irresponsible and self-destructive way. It is a lifestyle choice.

    As, "Joe Blow, is so fat he can't get out of bed", "Jane can't come to the party, because she is laid out drunk" and "Jimmy lost his car because he gambled away his paycheck".

    Not everything is a disease.
     
  14. Jun 22, 2013 #54 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    I don't deal with bullsh*t. Gilbert Highet was a teacher of the humanities, not a biologist or medical practitioner. Just because he is quoted as saying language is a living organism doesn't make it a fact. djlong said it right. Show me the pathogen. Show me the pathogen James that causes alcoholism. Show me the pathogen that causes drug addiction. Show me the pathogen that causes obesity. You Can't! My uncle was a alcoholic. He spent decades pickling his liver. When he died his cause of death was listed as cirrhosis of the liver, not alcoholism. My neighbor's daughter was a drug addict who overdosed this past winter. Her cause of death was listed as heart failure, not drug addiction. I contacted our local funeral home and asked if they ever received a client whose cause of death was listed as obesity. His reply was never. Alcoholism, drug addiction, and in most cases obesity are self afflicted "conditions". Calling them a disease is absurd.
     
  15. Jun 22, 2013 #55 of 114
    James Long

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    I lost a relative to obesity. It was listed right there on her death certificate. I also lost a relative to cancer ... but the listed cause of death was some infection that he got because his immune system was weakened by the cancer. If you read enough death certificates I'm sure you'll come up with plenty of different reasons people die. I'm not going to say everything listed on a death certificate is a disease (blunt force trauma, gunshot wound etc are not diseases) but to say that obesity has never been listed on a death certificate is wrong. Absolutely wrong. It has been there.

    I'm tired of dealing with bullsh*t. The AMA says it is a disease. That's good enough for me.
     
  16. Jun 22, 2013 #56 of 114
    MysteryMan

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    If you're tired take a nap. Maybe when you wake up they'll have fatigue listed as a disease. :sure:
     
  17. Jun 22, 2013 #57 of 114
    Drucifer

    Drucifer Well-Known Member

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    Fatigue is often a side effect of obesity.
     
  18. Jun 22, 2013 #58 of 114
    phrelin

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    Words from Thesaurus.com:

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    [​IMG]

    The problem with assigning behavioral blame for any malady or condition is that you get the flu because of behavior. You choose to place yourself in an unsafe environment where you can be exposed to the virus. You can always decide to not leave your home nor let your family leave home. You can greet the UPS or Safeway delivery folks with masks and gloves.

    In other words, things we routinely accept as a "disease" still occur because of behavior. If someone drinks from a stream and gets cholera is the cause the behavior or the bacterium Vibrio cholerae? Or maybe they just had a condition, a weak immune system related to genetic issues.

    I don't know why the AMA chose to define "obesity" as a "disease" but it doesn't affect my life significantly. Certainly some people who are obese have genetic conditions.
     
  19. Jun 23, 2013 #59 of 114
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You accidentally said something that sparked my brain there...

    I think obesity is closer to being an injury than a disease.

    I have ZERO problem with doctors helping to treat obesity, and I have ZERO problems with people looking to help and sometimes needing insurance or something to help pay for treatments.

    Obesity is something "wrong" and sometimes it is something wrong that you need help to deal with... and it may not be 100% your fault, just like an accident can happen that causes a broken arm... but I still don't like seeing obesity declared to be a disease as it seems to take most of the responsibility away from the patient.

    We are usually more responsible for our injuries than we are our diseases... though some exceptions apply... if you are hit by another car, that isn't your fault... while you could catch a disease through unprotected sex and that kind of is your fault.

    I certainly don't advocate a "neener neener, you're fat and it is all your fault blah blah" kind of reaction... but I don't know that it helps anybody to call it a disease, when it really isn't.
     
  20. Jun 23, 2013 #60 of 114
    phrelin

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    While I don't disagree with you by the way I've always used the word, by the dictionary definition it is a disease.

    And now the AMA agrees with Dictionary.com. :sure:
     

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