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On which channels do you have audio dropouts?

195K views 933 replies 267 participants last post by  Rich 
#1 ·
Seems like a good time to get a list of which HD MPEG-4 channels are still giving problems.

So, it's fairly well known that there are problems with the SAT feed that gives us audio dropouts on all MPEG-4 receivers with Dolby 5.1.
These dropouts have nothing to do with the hardware on our end, regardless of what DirecTV customer service may try to tell you.

If you have more than a random dropout every so often, then please post what channel is doing this and maybe the time/program you were watching, along with how many there were.

Things that will affect how bad these may be are whether you have Dolby set, and whether you're using your TV speakers, or running through an Audio Video Receiver. Some AVRs react much worse to these errors in the SAT feed than other AVRs, but the true source of the problem looks to be from the MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 conversion process on the uplink.

The goal here is to gather useful data to point DirecTV to where they need to focus, much like rubbing a dog's nose in something to get his attention.

Please leave the rants,*****ing, etc. to one of the other threads, as "we know" it is frustrating but posting it here will only get in the way of "mining the data" and could become counter productive to the goal of this thread.

DirecTV has asked us to post which Audio Video Receiver we're using, as this affects the frequency and duration of the dropouts
 
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#130 ·
nollchr said:
FXHD
Cartoon HD
Fox News HD

Denon AVR-1602 via optical

HDMI to Vizio 42" (not using TV speakers)

Note: My newer Denon AVR-788 via HDMI to the AVR has no audio dropout.
That is good to hear about the newer Denon's. I am hoping that most AVR producers are realizing that building in better robustness handling to their data stream processing is not exactly a bad thing.
 
#131 ·
txfeinbergs said:
That is good to hear about the newer Denon's. I am hoping that most AVR producers are realizing that building in better robustness handling to their data stream processing is not exactly a bad thing.
FWIW, I have a Denon AVR-891, which I would call a newer receiver and it has the audio drops.
 
#133 ·
tsduke said:
I'm curious now that this thread is 100+ posts in...

How is everyone listing channels of any value when we're pretty much at all HD channels now?

I can't honestly list you a HD channel that hasn't dropped out.
It's called aggregation of data. No one can monitor all of them. All of us have favorites. To the extent they don't overlap, then there is a pretty wide sampling of the problem. It's the best we can do with how we watch TV, don't you think?

Let's say that 20 people here watch USA network. Further, all 20 report audio drop outs.12 of them report it on a specific program at a specific time. When shown twice, are the dropouts in the same place? By comparing the rate of drop outs (per half-hour or hour) at a specific time (recorded or live), then we begin to get a grip on the nature and severity of the problem.

The same thing is true of any channel we gather data on. Instead of reporting, "they all do it", try to provide something useful like:

Network/Channel
Program (time viewed/time recorded)
Frequency of drops per 1/2 hr or hour
Duration (of the drop)
AVR and how it gets its audio.

This information is potentially useful. Saying "they all do it" is vacuous at best, for the purpose this thread was opened
 
#134 ·
hasan said:
It's called aggregation of data. No one can monitor all of them. All of us have favorites. To the extent they don't overlap, then there is a pretty wide sampling of the problem. It's the best we can do with how we watch TV, don't you think?

Let's say that 20 people here watch USA network. Further, all 20 report audio drop outs.12 of them report it on a specific program at a specific time. When shown twice, are the dropouts in the same place? By comparing the rate of drop outs (per half-hour or hour) at a specific time (recorded or live), then we begin to get a grip on the nature and severity of the problem.

The same thing is true of any channel we gather data on. Instead of reporting, "they all do it", try to provide something useful like:

Network/Channel
Program (time viewed/time recorded)
Frequency of drops per 1/2 hr or hour
Duration (of the drop)
AVR and how it gets its audio.

This information is potentially useful. Saying "they all do it" is vacuous at best, for the purpose this thread was opened
I thought, and still do think my question was quite valid. We're going on a year of this. They alreay know all of this information. I've spoken to multiple engineers. One even told me this issue doesn't rank high enough to warrant time to correct because only us enthusiast complain.

By the way, if you were reading the entire thread I've already posted some of the worst offending channels. Tonight, I've had 15+ dropouts on StarzHD-527 in the last 2:15.
 
#135 ·
tsduke said:
I thought, and still do think my question was quite valid. We're going on a year of this. They alreay know all of this information. I've spoken to multiple engineers. One even told me this issue doesn't rank high enough to warrant time to correct because only us enthusiast complain.

By the way, if you were reading the entire thread I've already posted some of the worst offending channels. Tonight, I've had 15+ dropouts on StarzHD-527 in the last 2:15.
Now, the last sentence was useful. Thanks. I could never report on that one, as I don't subscribe to premiums.

...and no, they don't know "all this information". We are collecting new stuff, with enough specifics to help nail it down. I doubt anyone previously took the time to provide the necessary information over a reasonable time period to give us a hint at what might resolve the problem. Not to mention, if they make adjustments and we don't bother to specifically report, we end up with misleading data to gauge the improvement or lack thereof against..

We have someone talking to an engineer who is engaged with the problem. He wants the info. Worst offending channels is nebulous. We are after counts per unit of time at a specific time, and equipment being used..

Everything else is noise, given what is being attempted in this thread.

If people don't want to participate in a useful manner (not aimed at you, btw), please start another thread and carry on. This one has a specified purpose, so let's stick to our knitting.
 
#136 ·
tsduke said:
One even told me this issue doesn't rank high enough to warrant time to correct because only us enthusiast complain.
Not sure who you were talking with, but I doubt very much that this is the broadcast center's opinion. If it was then I can tell you they wouldn't be reading this and the other thread as much as they are.
 
#137 ·
hasan said:
I doubt anyone previously took the time to provide the necessary information over a reasonable time period to give us a hint at what might resolve the problem. Not to mention, if they make adjustments and we don't bother to specifically report, we end up with misleading data to gauge the improvement or lack thereof against..
Not exactly true. I was in contact with the same engineer 2-3 times a week discussing specifics tests, scenarios and comparing recordings for close to 2 months. This was in April & May.
 
#138 ·
tsduke said:
Not exactly true. I was in contact with the same engineer 2-3 times a week discussing specifics tests, scenarios and comparing recordings for close to 2 months. This was in April & May.
OK as the thread starter, lets move on and if you don't want to play, fine, but let's not full the thread with babble of whether it's worth your time or effort.
 
#139 ·
So with what I've seen with the two difference Sony AVRs and the HR24, along with reading what others are having problems with.

Stuart Sweet had an idea that sparked a thought.

Could the encoders be programing to keep sending the DD5.1 signal even during the glitch times instead of just blanking?

I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed. If the feed could keep these locked onto the DD5.1, so the AVRs didn't cycle, it seems a fair amount of the dropouts might be reduced. Some dropouts don't seem to be real [in the feed but merely a loss of the Dolby bits] and others are longer but seem to be less than a second [to my ears on those I heard] so if the AVR didn't have to cycle then these would only be small dropouts.
While not perfect, it might [if it can be done] go a long way to improve the listener's experience.

Just a wild thought that came to mind and have no idea if it would work.
 
#140 ·
Thanks for the credit, VOS. Unfortunately I had to clean up a few more off topic posts. Please, let's keep this thread productive. If the overwhelming feeling is that we can't go a day without venting, I'll open a thread for you to complain but I'd much rather you expenses your energy documenting the issue.
 
#141 ·
veryoldschool said:
Could the encoders be programing to keep sending the DD5.1 signal even during the glitch times instead of just blanking?

I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed. If the feed could keep these locked onto the DD5.1, so the AVRs didn't cycle, it seems a fair amount of the dropouts might be reduced. Some dropouts don't seem to be real [in the feed but merely a loss of the Dolby bits] and others are longer but seem to be less than a second [to my ears on those I heard] so if the AVR didn't have to cycle then these would only be small dropouts.
VOS, you (and Stuart) may be onto something. When I turn my AVR on, or switch to, my AVR takes 1-3 second longer to come on than it does using other audio source materials. Since my dropouts while watching D* recorded material is 2-4 seconds, the differing one second may be that glitches. Also, the glitch could be one second, but with the AVR recovery/recycle time it might explain why I complain of 2-4 second gaps.
 
#142 ·
Stuart Sweet said:
Please, let's keep this thread productive.
Though somewhat off-topic due to the differences in problems, I've experienced some interesting audio issues on a couple of "local" channels after LIL was launched in my DMA Wednesday. Those issues (along with other non-audio related issues) were reported HERE and HERE.

Basically, two of the HD channels included in the LIL channels have audio problems. WABW (GPB/PBS 14) has absolutely no audio except for occasional blips. WCWJ (the Jacksonville, FL CW affiliate imported into our DMA) has the same issue, but only when HD programming is airing, as SD programming plays fine. This issue is with both the unit hooked up to an AVR and when connected via composite to a SDTV.

What does this have to do with the price of Coffee in China?! Well, I was reading this post:

veryoldschool said:
I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed.
... and I realized that the issues with these local channels are essentially the opposite of what we experience with the national channels.

With my SDTV hooked up via composite, you just notice that PBS has no audio (essentially), but when I viewed the channel with the HDTV/AVR, I realized the similarities in the issues. With the national channels, audio will be just fine... and every now and then, the audio will cut out and the AVR will display this momentary drop in audio. With the "local" channel(s), audio will be missing, and every now and then, "audio" will appear, and the AVR will display this momentary "blip" of audio. With The CW, it's different in that the audio is consistently cutting in and out (whereas PBS stays silent more often not), and in the fact that it only happens when The CW is showing network (HD) programming.

Again, I realize this is a "little" off-topic, and may have little to do with the issues in which this thread is intended to address, but I found the similarities... or differences, depending on how you want to look at it interesting. Others may disagree...

~Alan
 
#144 ·
Since Royal Pains on USA was one several watch here's what I had tonight:
First came @ 18 min
Next @ 35 mins but I couldn't hear it and only saw the AVR cycle and replayed it three times to make sure.
Then @ 42, 49, & 57.
Most I did hear but if a second is "one thousand" long, these were "on..." long.
 
#146 ·
veryoldschool said:
So with what I've seen with the two difference Sony AVRs and the HR24, along with reading what others are having problems with.

Stuart Sweet had an idea that sparked a thought.

Could the encoders be programing to keep sending the DD5.1 signal even during the glitch times instead of just blanking?

I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed. If the feed could keep these locked onto the DD5.1, so the AVRs didn't cycle, it seems a fair amount of the dropouts might be reduced. Some dropouts don't seem to be real [in the feed but merely a loss of the Dolby bits] and others are longer but seem to be less than a second [to my ears on those I heard] so if the AVR didn't have to cycle then these would only be small dropouts.
While not perfect, it might [if it can be done] go a long way to improve the listener's experience.

Just a wild thought that came to mind and have no idea if it would work.
john18 said:
VOS, you (and Stuart) may be onto something. When I turn my AVR on, or switch to, my AVR takes 1-3 second longer to come on than it does using other audio source materials. Since my dropouts while watching D* recorded material is 2-4 seconds, the differing one second may be that glitches. Also, the glitch could be one second, but with the AVR recovery/recycle time it might explain why I complain of 2-4 second gaps.
I tried the Onkyo TX-SR806 along with the Yamaha RX-V465 before settling on the Yamaha. The main reason, besides price :lol:, was the drop out "clicks." The Yamaha would blip for a quick half second, but the Onkyo would need like 3 or 4 seconds to recover on the exact same drop.

IMO, this shows how some folks might really be affected to a larger & more frustrating degree depending on their AVR.
 
#147 ·
sigma1914 said:
I tried the Onkyo TX-SR806 along with the Yamaha RX-V465 before settling on the Yamaha. The main reason, besides price :lol:, was the drop out "clicks." The Yamaha would blip for a quick half second, but the Onkyo would need like 3 or 4 seconds to recover on the exact same drop.

IMO, this shows how some folks might really be affected to a larger & more frustrating degree depending on their AVR.
It might also explain why I (and I'm sure others) have written off people's complaints about the problem as being too "dramatic". I find the audio dropouts to be annoying for sure, but I've rarely had it dampen my enjoyment of a program.

BTW, the "clicks" on my old Onkyo used to bug me. So glad I don't have them anymore with the Pioneer! :)

~Alan<~~~~~~~~Who is glad to see his PBS station's audio working...
 
#148 ·
Last night, the wife was watching BravoHD, The Real House Wives of DC... the drop outs were so bad, it was like watching a silent film.

Seriously, the attention and the time to resolution is Horrible with this issue. D* and everyone else who is "in the know" can keep saying they are working on it... but honestly, they are going to loose my family as a customer, we all spend so much money on equipment and you can't even enjoy it. What the point of being the HD leader when you can't hear the content in Surround Sound in an enjoyable way. Poor Form!
 
#149 ·
veryoldschool said:
Since Royal Pains on USA was one several watch here's what I had tonight:
First came @ 18 min
Next @ 35 mins but I couldn't hear it and only saw the AVR cycle and replayed it three times to make sure.
Then @ 42, 49, & 57.
Most I did hear but if a second is "one thousand" long, these were "on..." long.
VOS

I started watching Royal Pains on USAHD last night about 9:30 cst last night.
Basically, I got the same drops as you.
I got a drop at 35 min, 42 min, 49 min, and some pixelation but no audio drop at 54 min.
H23/600 - HDMI - Denon 1610 AVR - HDMI - Panasonic PlasmaTCP50S1
 
#150 ·
Stuart Sweet said:
Thanks for the credit, VOS. Unfortunately I had to clean up a few more off topic posts. Please, let's keep this thread productive. If the overwhelming feeling is that we can't go a day without venting, I'll open a thread for you to complain but I'd much rather you expenses your energy documenting the issue.
Stuart,
As a complainer, all I really want to know is that DirecTV views this as a legitimate problem and someone is working to correct it. I believe that the delivery of DD5.1 via MPEG4 is the issue. Granted it looks to be an encoding problem, but the end result is that my enjoyment of this enhanced audio is degraded due to this problem. I am obviously not alone.

I would like to say that DirecTV has done a very good job of delivering their HD video via MPEG4 and MRV. I am truly amazed some times at the quality of the picture. If they can handle the video, certainly they should be able to clean up the audio.

Thanks!:)
 
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