OTA Guide

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by mwdxer, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    We have several translators here on the Oregon Coast from Portland. Several Portland stations are going to add more sub channels coming this Summer. I wonder if the OTA guide will show them? How does Dish get the OTA guide? Is it from the guide the tower broadcasts, like the ones on any OTA tuner gets?
    The reason I ask is, since KPTV 12 and KPDX 49 went digital, they sent both signals out to the coast and split them to scan in as 12.1 and 12.2, but it shows as 12.1 and 49.1. But since they have done that, the software has not been written to give us an OTA guide. That doesn't matter a lot, but now it looks like they may be adding Cozi TV, Laff TV, and Escape. I probably will not get an OTA guide on those either. I was just wondering how Dish gets the OTA guide. Thanks.
     
  2. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    If Denver is any indication, we only get the OTA guide for the main channels, MeTV, ION Life, Qubo and a couple sub channels on one of our PBS stations. Even though we have a fair number of sub-channels about 60 or so. Most show up with their name, and some just show up like KTBN-1, KTBN-2, etc. So chances are no,

    titantv.com is a good source for getting a schedule.
     
  3. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    There's something in play that the channel counters seem to lose sight of periodically: capacity.

    DISH (and the receivers that some refuse to let go of) has only so much capacity for guide data. The result is that they don't carry absolutely everything for every subchannel.

    Because much of what is shown only includes the show name and lacks episode numbers or titles that a DVR scheduler take advantage of, what would be the point?
     
  4. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    OTA guide data is usually available if the main station is also carried on the satellite. A recent event revealed that the OTA guide comes from the SD version of the station (SD OTA's were off air overnight several days last week resulting in "off air" appearing in the guides of the the OTA channels despite the fact that these stations were indeed still on the air).

    The PSIP data on the OTA signal is not used for the Dish DVR EPG. I do get about 50% of the subchannels guide data. As I posted in other threads on this issue it's seems that the local station has more to do with getting Dish to provide the subchannel EPG. We had a "netlet" THIS go from a Raycom owned station where we get all their subchannels EPG data to a smaller station with no EPG data for any of their subchannels.
     
  5. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Seaside Oregon
    If Dish then does not get their guide directly from the OTA EPG, then having Dish add KPTV and KPDX to the OTA guide, might be possible, as they are the Fox and MyTV stations.This Summer we will get several new sub channels out here, METV, Get TV, Escape, Laff TV, Cozi, and probably Decades. I see from the Portland list of OTA channels, 2.2-METV does list their programming, but no Get TV. But some of it comes from the older receivers not having the memory, but I figured the older receivers did not have an OTA tuner in them anyway, so the guide would not include OTA. I know my 211k doesn't. I never had the OTA channels listed, until I added an antenna and scanned them in. One other note, I wonder if the OTA EPG does matter, as I now see that the EPG for Portland does have the programming for KPTV and KPDX, but not out here. But KPTV/KPDX does admit that they still do not have the software written for the the OTA guide here, so no guide as yet.
     
  6. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Each digital station can transmit a TSID that identifies the station.

    In Portland the channels and TSIDs are:
    KATU TSID 0x0975
    KOIN TSID 0x0977
    KGW TSID 0x0979
    KOPB TSID 0x097B
    KPTV TSID 0x097D
    KPXG TSID 0x0987
    KRCW TSID 0x0989
    KPDX TSID 0x0C55
    KUNP TSID 0x0F7B

    For the sake of illuustration assume the receiver picks up a channel identifying itself as TSID 0x0975. It does not matter what frequency the signal is received on as long as the TSID is 0x0975 it will match.

    DISH has three channels in the EPG that match TSID 0x0975 ...
    6420 KATU TSID 0x0975, Subchannel 01 (Mapdown 002-00)
    8670 KATU TSID 0x0975, Subchannel 01 (Mapdown 002-00)
    15386 KATU2 TSID 0x0975, Subchannel 02

    Note that channel 15386 is ONLY in the EPG. The actual channel is not transmitted by DISH. 15386 is one of 1084 OTA EPG channels.
    Also note that both the SD and HD channels as carried by DISH match the OTA subchannel.
    The "mapdown" shown is how the satellite transmitted channel appears in the guide. It does not affect OTA guide (and does not appear on the "OTA EPG" channels in the 14xxx-15xxx ranges).

    DISH uses the TSID and subchannel to match an EPG to an OTA feed.

    If a station transmits on more than one frequency or through a translator what matters for a match is the TSID and subchannel number. If either is wrong the wrong EPG (or no EPG) will be matched.
     
  7. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    I get guide data for both KPTV and KPDX -- both LIL and OTA. If you're not, they must have your name on a blacklist. ;)

    The element of the PSIP data that DISH uses is the channel information so it can ID the station. Most of the rest of the PSIP data (including program info) is ignored.
     
  8. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Meredith (KPTV-12.1 & KPDX-49.1) does things a bit different on how they get the signals to the Oregon Coast OTA. The two HD signals leave the West Hills and are picked up by an antenna on a cel tower in the mountains between Portland and the coast. Then it is sent on to Megler Mt in SW WA where we pick it up. The distance is too great and there is too many mountains to get it here without the boost halfway, The two signals are received at the Megler site and then go into the receiver and transmitter as 21.1 KPTV and 12.2 KPDX, then when we get them, both is 720p and 12.1 KPTV and 49.1 KPDX. . With the combined signals, we have not gotten an OTA guide as yet. The Meredith software people are trying to write on, but nothing as yet. So the only guide available is on the satellite channel from Dish, not OTA. But now KPTV & KPDX will be adding sub channels, and without a guide, it will make it awkward for recording from the sub channels. 12.1 KPTV Fox, 12.2 Cozi TV, 12.3 Laff TV, 49.1 KPDX MyTV, 49.2 Escape TV. I do have access to an online guide on the Roku, where I can plug in a zip code and get their OTA guide, eg Portland is 97210. But it would be nice to have everything in one place.
     
  9. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Legend

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    KATU and KOIN have translators in central Oregon. My 722 gets the OTA guide for the subchannels on both of them. Ironically, we don't get the subchannel info for the Bend PBS station because Dish doesn't carry it. So if it works the same for you, you'll get the same guide info as the Portland people do.
     
  10. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, so both 2.2 METV and 2.3 Get TV, has the schedule. At least that is nice to know. Do you get KPTV 12 or KPDX 49 out there in Central Oregon? Interesting that ABC and CBS Portland have translators in the Bend area, as doesn't Bend have their own Network stations?
     
  11. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    One other question I have is, will the 211k pick up all sub channels? the reason I ask, since KPTV/KPDX both come in on 21.1 and 21.2, it is possible with the 3 sub channels added, we may have a 21.3/21.4/21.5 added. I know there is an ethnic channel in LA, Ch 18 I believe that runs no HD, but they have like 10 sub channels. I wonder if the 211k would receive all of them, or is there any limit? So far I have not figured out a way to get the 3 different audio streams on KOPB's 10.3. They run audio only, 10.3/1 NPR News, 10.3/2 NPR Music, and 10.3/3 is KMHD FM, Jazz. So far I have only gotten the 211k to get the 1st audio, the NPR news. So the 211k does not pick up everything like a regular TV tuner does.
     
  12. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The ViP211, ViP211K and ViP211z with USB tuner module will pick up whatever ATSC channels your antenna can deliver. Old school analog translators or modulators are not provided for.
     
  13. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Good, even without a guide, the sub channels will appear if they are broadcast here.
     
  14. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Legend

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    All of the Portland station translators are gone from Bend. The KATU translator is on Grizzly Mountain, between Madras and Prineville, targeted for them and Redmond. The KOIN translator is on Powell Butte, between Bend and Prineville, meant for the same cities as KATU. They're both pretty low power but with a favorable location and decent antenna can be picked up in Bend. It's the only way to get MeTV here. I'm not aware of any translators for 12 or 49 in the area. I was totally in the dark about the existence of Get TV. It must have been added after I set up the locals on the 722, and isn't on the guide. I'm assuming I'll have to rescan the locals to get it. I checked with the television directly, and 2.3 is in fact present on the translator. Thanks for the tip on Get TV, I never would have learned about it on my own.
     
  15. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Glad I could help. i try to scan at least once a month on the TV. If there is anything new, then I scan the 211k. The TV is easier and quicker. With so many changes around here, and there are 7 CPs out there for new OTA TV stations, it is fun to check. We still have one analog OTA left, KATU. Everything else is digital. They vary in power from KOIN (576w ERP) to KGW at about 5,000 watts ERP. I get all of them from Megler mt as I am LOS at 12.1 miles. But I get nothing else OTA here. But now there will be more additions.
     
  16. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Legend

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    I've got the 722 receiving Get TV from the KATU translator, but there's no guide data. 2-1 and 2-2 (metv) has the guide data, 2-3 just has "Digital Service".
     
  17. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Seaside Oregon
    Thanks again. It looks like I'll have a lot more "Digital Service" out here on the guide. But at least the channels will scan in.
     
  18. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    I use TitanTV.com find programming to set manual timers for sub-channels that have no guide data.
     
  19. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. The Roku also has an app to list what is on the air in any city. I just have to plug in the zip code, but of course it ismuch easier if I have the guide on Dish.
     

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