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Pac-12 Networks confident, even without DirecTV

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Programming' started by Athlon646464, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Sandra

    Sandra Legend

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    Apr 16, 2012
    Let's deal in some facts here. While having a losing coaching record your first two seasons does not guarantee immortality, here is a list of some pretty good coaches and their record their first two seasons:

    Bill Walsh 8-24
    Bill Parcells 12-19-1
    Chuck Noll 6-22
    Tom Landry 4-20-2
    Bill Belichick 13-19
    Tom Coughlin 13-19

    So having a losing record early in your career does not necessarily make you a huge disappointment. Because Saban, Spurrier and Petrino walked away we'll never find out if they would have improved.


    The Eagles have not looked pretty good at all. They've only beaten horrible teams from the NFC East so far. At the moment Kelly's record is starting out the same way Saban/Spurrier/Petrino started out...with a losing record.


    Sandra
     
  2. BlackDynamite

    BlackDynamite Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    All of those coaches sucked in the NFL. They may have quit before they got fired, but everyone knew they were going to be fired if they didn't leave on their own.


    None of these coaches were about to be fired...they all quit to return to college. Saban had to keep shooting down Alabama rumors until he finally changed his mind. Petrino quit after like 12 games and there was no way he was getting fired by Arthur Blank. You can certainly make the argument if their teams had continued to play poorly they would have been fired eventually, but we'll never know.
    Check their records. Not a single one of them had a winning record as an NFL head coach. They were all huge disappointments.

    Let's deal in some facts here. While having a losing coaching record your first two seasons does not guarantee immortality, here is a list of some pretty good coaches and their record their first two seasons:

    Bill Walsh 8-24
    Bill Parcells 12-19-1
    Chuck Noll 6-22
    Tom Landry 4-20-2
    Bill Belichick 13-19
    Tom Coughlin 13-19

    So having a losing record early in your career does not necessarily make you a huge disappointment. Because Saban, Spurrier and Petrino walked away we'll never find out if they would have improved.

    Kelly may wind up the same, and I acknowledged that it happening to him too was pretty much the only way he'd ever coach USC.

    But let's face it, the odds of that happening are pretty slim. The Eagles have looked pretty good so far, aside from Michael Vick's injury. Certainly better than last season, when they finished dead last in their division and only won 4 games all year.


    The Eagles have not looked pretty good at all. They've only beaten horrible teams from the NFC East so far. At the moment Kelly's record is starting out the same way Saban/Spurrier/Petrino started out...with a losing record.


    Sandra
    All of those coaches were about to be fired. The reason there were so many rumors about Saban going to Alabama was because everyone knew he had worn out his welcome in Miami.

    I see you posted a handful of coaches that started out crappy but didn't get fired. I'm honestly not sure what you were trying to articulate with that. Are you trying to prove that not all crappy coaches get fired in a timely manner? Or are you trying to say that sometimes crappy coaches improve? I don't disagree with either of those statements.

    My point was, and remains, that successful NFL coaches never quit to go coach college. The list of examples you posted of NFL coaches "quitting" to go coach college did not have even one successful NFL coach. It was all a bunch of guys who were basically run out of town after failing to meet expectations. Not a single one of them left the NFL with a winning record as a head coach.

    As for the Eagles, they finished in last place with only 4 wins last year. They had their starting QB go down with an injury in their 5th game this season. Despite that fact, they will still likely win more than twice as many games this season than they did last year, possibly triple the number of wins. And they have a great shot to win the division after finishing last just a year ago. Regardless of your own personal feelings about the Eagles, it's a fact that they're much better this year than last, and nobody is calling for their coach to be fired. He has a better chance to win coach of the year than he does to be fired at this point. You point out how horrible the NFC East is, but apparently you don't consider that the Eagles finished in last place in that horrible division last season.
     
  3. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

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    It bothers me that ND outdraws Stanford. It bothers me a lot.

    ND's competitive advantage was its TV contract. A coach could always sell ND to a recruit by arguing that his playing time will be televised. This is no longer the case, as Stanford's games are as widely available as ND's.

    But change takes time. When a potential recruit has to choose between Southbend and Palo Alto, he will choose the latter. Perhaps not on a consistent basis today. Give it another decade, though, and ND's football program will be relegated to obscurity.
     
  4. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Any change in the Eagles coaching staff would have had better results than last year. The whole thing had grown stale. It isn't that Andy Reid had lost his coaching ability or that he is/was a bad coach. Look at the very much bigger turnaround in KC he is overseeing right now.

    Other than new energy (which may not last since the NFL is not a rah-rah league), there are two things that are better about the Eagles this year from last:

    1. The Giants
    2. The Redskins
     
  5. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Yeah, sure. Keep hoping.
     
  6. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Uh, no. Chip Kelly at this point must feel he falls in the good category, at least he did when he signed. He cannot know with certainty if he'll be successful in the NFL.
    There are precious few facts at this point in his career vis-à-vis the NFL.
     
  7. Sandra

    Sandra Legend

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    Apr 16, 2012
    You declared Saban, Petrino to be NFL failures because of their record after two seasons (and less than one season for Petrino). I gave you a list of incredibly successful coaches who had poor records after two seasons. It's not complicated.

    Chip Kelly is not a successful NFL coach. Not yet. Maybe someday he will be...maybe not. Maybe he'll quit after a season or two if the right college job comes along.


    I didn't say he'll be fired. I said he may go the Saban/Spurrier/Petrino route and quit to go back to his comfort zone in college.

    Two of the highest profile jobs in all of college sports could be available shortly.


    Sandra
     
  8. Sandra

    Sandra Legend

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    Apr 16, 2012
    No idea what your point is, but I stand by what I said and you did not change my mind.


    Sandra
     
  9. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Allen, TX
    Are you serious? Or are you letting your Stanford roots cloud your judgment. ND has every home game televised nationally, Stanford doesn't. Almost every away game gets televised, as well, especially with their resurgence. ND football isn't going anywhere now or in another decade, either. Stanford has been in obscurity for years/decades. I've been alive since 1978... Stanford has had 4 10 win seasons since 78. lol That's obscurity in every sense of the word. ND has had 8, including 24 bowl appearances. Stanford has been to 12.

    It's no surprise ND outdraws Stanford.
     
  10. BlackDynamite

    BlackDynamite Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    Well just have to agree to disagree on Saban. I remember quite clearly all the talk surrounding him after the Dolphins finished with a losing record when everyone thought they should have been a playoff team. You seem to think the rumors about him returning to college were just out of the blue. That would be quite a coincidence. A team that is projected to be a playoff team had a disappointing season, finishing with a losing record, and then coincidentally, unrelated rumors heat up that the coach is leaving.

    Your other two examples are just crazy. Two coaches who had just had some of the worst seasons in the history of their franchises. Yeah, I'm sure it's just coincidence that they both "quit" after such epic failures.

    Your list of coaches who turned out to be good coaches is not even really related to anything I was discussing. I never once made a claim that a coach who fails can never ever have any success. It doesn't happen very often, but it's not impossible or unheard of. More often than not, especially with how much money is on the line these days, owners will not waste the time or money waiting and hoping for it to happen. They'll give a coach two or three years and move on. And there are far more examples of this than the handful you listed who kept their jobs and improved even though they sucked at first.

    I'll say again, since you don't seem to get this... The number of NFL coaches who sucked and were still kept around has absolutely nothing to do with my statement that successful NFL coaches never quit to go back to college. It never happens. The few examples you attempted to list were all terrible NFL coaches that everyone not named Sandra knew had worn out their welcome. Not a single one of them left on a good note. Not a single one of them left with a winning NFL record. Not a single one of them left the fans worried about finding a comparable replacement. Nobody thought it was a setback when they left. They were all basically run out of town.

    Kelly is clearly not in that situation. He may be someday, stranger things have happened. But right now the guy is more likely to win a coach of the year award than he is to be run out of town.
     
  11. BlackDynamite

    BlackDynamite Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    Any change in the Eagles coaching staff would have had better results than last year. The whole thing had grown stale. It isn't that Andy Reid had lost his coaching ability or that he is/was a bad coach. Look at the very much bigger turnaround in KC he is overseeing right now.

    Other than new energy (which may not last since the NFL is not a rah-rah league), there are two things that are better about the Eagles this year from last:

    1. The Giants
    2. The Redskins

    I agree Reid is a good coach. That's why he's still coaching an NFL team and not a college team. He went to several championship games and even a super bowl. The man has a proven track record.
     
  12. joed32

    joed32 Hall Of Fame

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    Let's deal in some facts here. While having a losing coaching record your first two seasons does not guarantee immortality, here is a list of some pretty good coaches and their record their first two seasons:

    Bill Walsh 8-24
    Bill Parcells 12-19-1
    Chuck Noll 6-22
    Tom Landry 4-20-2
    Bill Belichick 13-19
    Tom Coughlin 13-19

    So having a losing record early in your career does not necessarily make you a huge disappointment. Because Saban, Spurrier and Petrino walked away we'll never find out if they would have improved.


    The Eagles have not looked pretty good at all. They've only beaten horrible teams from the NFC East so far. At the moment Kelly's record is starting out the same way Saban/Spurrier/Petrino started out...with a losing record.


    Sandra





    Agree, the 2 teams that the Eagles have beaten have combined single win between them. But they do get Tampa Bay this Sunday who is 0-4 and if they beat them the teams they have beaten will still have only one win combined.
     
  13. BlackDynamite

    BlackDynamite Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    Agree, the 2 teams that the Eagles have beaten have combined single win between them. But they do get Tampa Bay this Sunday who is 0-4 and if they beat them the teams they have beaten will still have only one win combined.

    While this is true, it's still better to be making excuses for why they're winning than last year when they were making excuses for why they were losing.
     
  14. Sandra

    Sandra Legend

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    Apr 16, 2012
    I guess we will have to agree to disagree now. I think your opinions here are reactionary and ridiculous, and give them no validity whatsoever. You probably feel the same about mine, neither of us will change each other's mind, so time to stop hijacking the thread with a tangent that is off topic in the first place, and simply move on.

    We can revisit this IF Chip Kelly becomes a successful long-term NFL coach, or if he decides to punt and move back to college in the near future.

    Back on topic - I hope DirecTV and the Pac-12 come to an agreement SOON.

    Sandra
     
  15. BlackDynamite

    BlackDynamite Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    I guess we will have to agree to disagree now. I think your opinions here are reactionary and ridiculous, and give them no validity whatsoever. You probably feel the same about mine, neither of us will change each other's mind, so time to stop hijacking the thread with a tangent that is off topic in the first place, and simply move on.

    We can revisit this IF Chip Kelly becomes a successful long-term NFL coach, or if he decides to punt and move back to college in the near future.

    Back on topic - I hope DirecTV and the Pac-12 come to an agreement SOON.

    Sandra

    One quick question before we move on...

    When Mack Brown "quits" after the season, do you think it's the same as how you feel about Saban, Spurrier, etc. quitting?

    Or are we in agreement that Mack Brown "quitting" is only a courtesy being extended to him so he doesn't have to say he was fired?
     
  16. nitty316

    nitty316 Legend

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    Aug 27, 2008
    Any updates on if we are getting the Pac 12 network or not? You guys give me false hope when I see this thread bumped. Good discussion though.
     
  17. Sandra

    Sandra Legend

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    Apr 16, 2012
    This is why we have to end this. You're trying to compare Mack Brown being asked to step down by quitting, and I'm saying that was not the case with Saban, Spurrier or Petrino. None of the three were at that point yet. You say they were, I say they weren't and I completely disagree with you.

    There is no proof on either side, so...enjoy your day.


    Sandra
     
  18. BlackDynamite

    BlackDynamite Legend

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    Technically there is no proof Mack Brown has been asked to step down either. I'm sure in 5 or 10 years someone will not believe that he was in that same situation, since there is no proof and they won't remember all the talk about it at the time.

    Okay, I'm done.

    No, there is no news about us getting the PAC 12 Network. We probably won't get it till next year. Hopefully Utah takes Stanford to overtime tomorrow so there will be a lot of people complaining when they can't watch it.
     
  19. Bambler

    Bambler Legend

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    May 30, 2006
    No. It would look foolish for them to carry it now.

    Even if the customers that left over this is "de-minimis," what would be the point of carrying it now as those few customers that left are already gone and will probably never come back. May as well make those losses mean something because if DirecTV signs now, the only thing they would have gained from the delay is a loss in a few customers and higher prices, which wouldn't look very good in hindsight.

    In other words, DirecTV needs to ensure that whatever losses incurred from their strategy pays off because buckling now would make things twice as bad as opposed to signing early.
     
  20. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    I think it still depends on the deal. If they were losing enough customers to make a difference, they would have made a deal. So, customer loss must be small relatively. If so, it isn't a factor. But cost of carriage remains the issue. For PAC 12 as well as future channels.

    Basically, directv probably has a formula they work to. It probably hasn't changed much.
     

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