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Playlist not refreshing, MRV not working properly HELP!!

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Connected Home' started by DrummerBoy523, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. BAHitman

    BAHitman Godfather

    433
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    Oct 23, 2007
    Austin Texas
    Drummerboy,

    1. do you have wireless in your router? if so, is your wireless secureed somehow (WEP or WPA PSK)
    2. how many other devices do you have on your network. (how many PC's, xboxes, smartphones, etc... do you have)
    3. are you running any kind of server, such as playon, tversity, etc... to media share personal music/photos/videos?

    What I'm trying to figure out, is how much broadcast traffic you may have on your network. Note, that for all intents and purposes, Multicast traffic IS broadcast traffic,

    as a data point: 6 DVR's all on ethernet network with about 12 PC's, 3 X-Box 360's 2 servers, couple of WII's (Wireless) several smart phones, etc... all of this (except the servers) run DHCP with no reservations. we have no issues in our network. Most of the equipment runs 24/7 by aid of battery back-ups. I tried to diagram it once, but gave up as it got too busy...
    however, I have vast experience with routers, and I know of no consumer level router that would outright block multicast packets, however, quite a few use something called a soft switch, where the router's software does the data transfer, and all of the data have to be manually divided and sent out the router's switch ports, this delay could theoretically cause problems. Connecting through a switch is a good idea, and I will be curious to see if it works. other than that, a better router, such as one with a gigabit switch built in would be a good thing to try. but a small switch would be cheaper.
     
  2. BAHitman

    BAHitman Godfather

    433
    0
    Oct 23, 2007
    Austin Texas
    A little bit about DHCP (for those interested in how it affects your network)


    DHCP is a messaging exchange between a client and server. it uses a netwokr broadcast to get the job done.

    step 1 is for the device to send a DISCOVER packet (this packet says "Hello, is there a DHCP Server out there I can get an address from?")
    step 2 is for the DHCP Server to send an OFFER packet (This packet says "Hi there, I am an DHCP Server, and I can help you get an address on the network")
    Step 3 is for the device to sen a REQUEST packet (Thank you, I would like an address. The last time I was on a network, I had this address: a.b.c.d, can I have that one please?)
    Step 4 is for the DHCP Server to send an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT packet (This packet says "Here is the IP you can use. here are specific settings you can use on the network (subnet mask, default gateway, dns servers, etc...), and here is how long you can use this address")

    now the device has it's address. now, what happens is when the time given is 1/2 over (ie, lease time of 8 hours would be 4 hours). this process is repeated, and a renew occurs starting the timer over.

    the DHCP server tracks each client by it's MAC (Media Access Control) address, it is also common for a DHCP server to check if an address is in use before it assigns one, but some cheaper routers lack the logic to do this.

    so, in theory, if a router reboots, and it does not maintain it's lease table, there could be a chance that it duplicates addressess, albeit small, since the client will try to request the same address as it had/has if it maintains a record of it.

    More reading of DHCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHCP)
     
  3. DrummerBoy523

    DrummerBoy523 Godfather

    516
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    Jan 9, 2007
    Franklin, TN
    1.) yes, my router is wireless. I use WEP. The devices that hit it wirelessly are our iPhones (2), my WRT54G with DD-WRT configured as a repeater/bridge, and our laptop upstairs

    2.) The devices on our network are:
    • Wife's iPhone Wireless
    • My iPhone Wireless
    • Laptop Upstairs Wireless
    • Home Office Wired
    • HR24
    • H24
    • HR21
    • Wii

    3.) No media share currently

    I got the switch for a great deal on NewEgg for $20 and free shipping, so I thought what the heck?!?! It is a TrendNet TEG-S50g gigabit switch (although nothing on my network is gigabit I dont think unless the DECA is).
     
  4. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

    3,192
    3
    Aug 11, 2003
    Well honestly, thats what is perplexing and led me to suspect DHCP, but I think we've kinda implied that isn't the issue here... but..

    All your DECA traffic should remain on the DECA network. IF things were as expected, that traffic would go from the HR24 to the client through the DECA. There's no need for routing, and no need to leave the DECA broadband and go to the router. So - either its related to DHCP OR the DECA BB/Router is adding something to the DECA cloud that is causing the failure (duplicate packets, broadcasts, malformed packets...).
     
  5. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

    3,192
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    Aug 11, 2003
    Just to be clear... the HR24, H24, and HR21 listed above are on DECA - they aren't wired through ethernet as well right? (Just want to be clear...)
     
  6. DrummerBoy523

    DrummerBoy523 Godfather

    516
    1
    Jan 9, 2007
    Franklin, TN
    yup. DECA cloud only.

    I agree with your previous post that the DECA network shouldn't need anything from my router - except maybe DHCP - and the DECA traffic should, in all intent and purpose, stay on the DECA network. But, something is causing the boxes to lose sight of each other...

    Switch has been installed and I'll keep an eye on things - but if you have any other suggestions I'm willing to try ANYTHING :)
     
  7. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    DECA is 10/100 Fast Ethernet, not gigabit.
     
  8. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    And as I suggested earlier, if all else fails try static IP for the receivers and leave the rest of your Home Network on DHCP by setting your starting IP address range at a higher level (starts at 192.168.1.120 on my router setup) than the static IP range in your router.

    Use Open DNS of 208.67.222.222 or 208.67.220 for the receiver's DNS.
    setting.

    This is how mines is setup with the BB DECA connected to an 8 port ethernet switch (Intellinet).
     
  9. BAHitman

    BAHitman Godfather

    433
    0
    Oct 23, 2007
    Austin Texas
    OK. so it really does not sound like a large amount of devices on your network. so this may or may not help...

    DECA traffic, if multicast or broadcast packets WILL traverse to the ethernet network, and will also broadcast out the WLAN. Wireless will under normal settings broadcast this traffic at a lower data rate than normal traffic, possibly causing bottlenecks, and depending on the access point side of the router cause trouble by beeing unable to buffer it all. intereference on the wireless from cordless phones, microwaves, etc... can help make this worse.

    If the switch does not take care of it, can you try disable your wireless portion of your router if you can? if not see of you can go into the advanced settings and see if you can change the preamble to short, or if you have something called basic rates that you can raise the speed of. your particular router may or may not have any of these, and you need to write down how they are now, so if some of your devices have problems getting back on the wireless, you can change them back if you need to.

    anyway, in my opinion, DHCP is not the problem and in my experience, have never seen it cause network problems. it is VERY low bandwith consumption in the scheme of things. if this traffic does concern you, increase your lease duration as high as it will go. In most home networks, it's very safe to set the lease time to a high value. unless you run an unsecured wireless network. to me, it seems like you have a traffic bottleneck of some kind in your network, and some of the steps I have outlined may help get to the bottom of it.
     
  10. efreedenburg

    efreedenburg Cool Member

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    Nov 16, 2005
    Proof of above bad MRV code.

    Been running 2 days with no problems, full internet accress and MRV.

    This is what I have found out.

    I was running strictly home ethernet, all networking worked for a few days.

    I get the message that a MRV receiver has disconnected.
    All other networking continues:
    DOD, VOD, Directv2PC and netflix to my PS3 on the same router.

    I pinged my receivers and the actual router and got a 20% packet lose.

    A neighbor must have gotten a new wireless router.

    Problem 1 packet lose:
    Determined Chan 3 was being jumped on so I switched the Channel to 11.

    Rebooted the receivers all problems seemed to be fine.

    Problem 2 rebooting router:

    Received my DECA's SWM8 SWS4's and installed them. Ran fine for a while, same problem, I ran a 50ft cable to a different router and MRV lasted longer.

    I notice the router that was up the longest had an auto reboot for 96000 seconds. The router that lasted a lesser amount of time was rebooting every
    9000 seconds. these times coincided with the time intervals my MRV would die.

    I removed the auto reboot from both routers and now I have no more MRV or any other networking problems.

    So as you say MRV networking code is flawed, it can't recover from any bad packets, storm or router reboot./

    Again VOD,DOD, Directv2PC and TV Apps keep plugging away.

    Beta MRV users did you have a user menu item that would reestablish the MRV handshake? If so it was probably known how easy it was for the MRV code to breakdown, that should be put back until the code is fixed.

    If the network code for MRV was as robust as the DOD,VBOD,Directv2Pc we would not be having these problems.

    Thanks for listening
    Ed F.
     
  11. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

    3,192
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    Aug 11, 2003
    No - there has never been a menu to "reset or restart" MRV. Only a reboot seems to do that.

    So, it sounds like you were able to find a couple problem areas, and now, you seem to be running much better/longer without the router reboots. It does seem to support the "multiple triggers" theory.

    The router reboot is interesting though... something that would be easy to test by someone else (just unplug your router... wait 10 seconds, plug it back in... Did MRV die?)
     
  12. DogLover

    DogLover Hall Of Fame

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    Mar 18, 2007
    I don't want to discount your experience, but I believe it may be more complicated than this.

    About a month ago, we were having a very large problem with out Comcast internet. For a week or so, it would go out several times a day, with the worst days going out about a dozen times. Since Mr. DogLover works from home and uses Vonage VOIP, he was aware every time it went out, and the thing that would fix it fastest was to reboot the router.

    During the entire time, I never noticed any loss of connectivity between the 3 DVRS and 1 receiver. Now, I didn't check after each router reboot. But, whenever I wanted to watch a TV show, it was available. So, if it did lose connectivity, it recovered before I wanted to watch TV.

    Now, I have not always been on the National Release, so it is possible that the problem that you are seeing has been fixed. But it might also be that there is some other variable in your situation that is keeping MRV from recovering.
     
  13. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    Aug 11, 2003
    If Ed's working, I'm happy... :lol: Now we got to get Drummer working!

    But you are right... variability is always a factor. Maybe his router does a particular broadcast when it starts up? Who knows... the fact that he lost it connected Ethernet AND DECA kinda implies there's some other factors. But hopefully it stays up stable and eventually we find something that can be reproduced/replicated that causes the issue. Once we have that it'd be much much easier to get DirecTVs focused attention on this and find the cause... A reproduction scenario is what we want and need...
     
  14. BAHitman

    BAHitman Godfather

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    Oct 23, 2007
    Austin Texas
    exactly.

    The router reboots are most likeley causing the ethernet side of the DECA adapter to lose link. I wonder what that does to the DECA cloud. Would that cause all networking on the DECA cloud to reset?
     
  15. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Dec 9, 2006
    I pulled my switch out of the loop and set all DVRs to share. Been this way for a day & a half, no problem found.

    Why, other than a loss of power, would a router reboot? :confused:
     
  16. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

    3,192
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    Aug 11, 2003
    With the new software rolling out I think it will be important for those having issues to post when you get it - and what the results are after. As has been stated, we may be chasing something DirecTV already found and resolved.
     
  17. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

    3,192
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    Aug 11, 2003
    For some reason, Ed's routers have a reboot timer in them.

    The only reason I can think of is they have a memory leak or performance degradation and put the autoreboot in to mask it. It may also just be a left over remnant in the code that is safe to turn off.
     
  18. efreedenburg

    efreedenburg Cool Member

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    Nov 16, 2005

    All routers running ddwrt have and administration->Keep Alive tab to set up rebooting the router. Very handy if you are testing networking problems. I turned it on while debugging Series 2 Directivo MR viewing, my mistake for not turning off.

    Ddwrt is very powerful router software. Buffaloe and other router manufacturers are starting to put it on their routers at the factory.
    In 4 years the only thing rebooting broke is MRV.
    -----------------------------------
    DD wrt Users Manual
    2.3.7. Administration
    ...

    2.3.7.2. Keep Alive
    Keep-Alive lets you configure monitoring options that automatically reboot the router if a service malfunction causes it to fail to respond.

    ----------------------------------

    I have turned the rebooting off.

    Some others that are having this MRV drop out problem are also running DDwrt on their routers.
    Later today I will check DD wrt default reboot setting. I just received 3 new Linksys Wireless N routers.

    Please don't lose track of MRV failure after it sees any anomily in network
    traffic.

    Again all other networking continues to function on my network after MRV disconnect

    PS3 with Netflix
    2 Series 2 Directivos telnet tranfers etc
    Pioneer Elite
    Tivo Series 3 Brighthouse
    2 laptops
    2 desktops
    and
    DOD,VOD,Directv2pc and NetApps on the DTV receivers.

    The MRV software is not as robust as the rest of Directv receivers networking sofware, ,that can be fixed by DTV, I hope it is fixed for others who are seeing this problem and living with it. Not everyone reads these forums. Search Google for thes MRV problems. It appears to be many with same problems of dropping MRV.

    Just found this quote from armchair:
    http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=181366
    ------------------------------------------------
    I know what you mean. I've had this happen once and had to restart both my DVRs in the MRV DECA network. Different f/w we've had for MRV seems to be picky about INTERNET connectivity. If a device is not seen when expected, it disconnects and as far as MRV is concerned, a flag seems to be preventing re-sharing UPL and p/b privileges until a menu restart clears the fault flag out. But this flag does not seem to prohibit reconnect to INTERNET for VOD or TV APPS.

    I've seen that particular flag in the code come and go. We used to have a work-around in beta and pre-beta. We could use either a specific keyword search or toggle the beta "opt-out" then "opt-in" to get back in the MRV loop. Now we have no means of toggling or re-enabling the MRV Client or Server w/o a restart.

    Seems we need one or the other in the current MRV code, either a MRV Server/Client toggle or allow reconnect of a device w/o a fault flag that prohibits the device from re-joining the MRV share group.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    So the BETA did have a way to restart MRV handshake.

    Thanks
    Ed F.
     
  19. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Los...
    Well ...

    If thats the case, then it's just one more reason (for me anyhow) to stay with static IPs on the DirecTV receivers.

    It seems to avoid problems (so far :) ) with any possible iffy behavior with reliance upon router DHCP administration on the DirecTV boxes as I've rebooted my router a number of times since MRV was installed and have never lost MRV connectivity on any of my boxes.
     
  20. DrummerBoy523

    DrummerBoy523 Godfather

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    Jan 9, 2007
    Franklin, TN
    I'd like to thank all the responses - a lot of great advice and discussion, but if everyone doesn't mind, I would like to get back on topic since I started this thread with an issue that still isn't resolved for me. Sure, I understand that I'm not the only one with issues - but it would be nice if others could start a separate thread/discussion with their issue so that this thread wouldn't get muddied up and off topic. I am thrilled that Ed got his issue fixed (or so we hope), but I'd like to get my issue taken care of too... thanks a bunch.

    :backtotop

    :)
     

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