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Police: 13 dead; 58 injured in Colorado theater shooting

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Unknown, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The argument was against calling the practice a "near deadly mistake". The examples I gave were also incidents where children were killed. The locations were just as deadly.

    Does the nobility of seeing a congresswoman, going to school or visiting McDonalds (nobility?) negate the deadliness of visiting those locations on the day of the shooting? Does that nobility bring the children killed in those incidents back to life? Nope.

    There is nothing inherently deadly about visiting a movie theater in a mall in Colorado with a few hundred other people. It is not the parenting choice I would make but it is not inherently deadly.


    Lets focus a little here:
    The law was apparently broken by James Holmes, who apparently killed 12 people and wounded 58 others in a shooting rampage (innocent until proven guilty - despite the lynch mob attitude). What law was broken by a parent being out with their child?
     
  2. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Can't forget the ads and previews. It's one thing to say a child that young shouldn't be out that late, it's another for someone to lay partial blame for what happened on a victim or family member of a victim.
     
  3. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    I'm certainly not blaming the parents for their kids almost getting killed; rather, I am saying they should have never brought their kids there in the first place.
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Then why use the inflamatory terms such as "deadly mistake"? It DIRECTLY refers to death and blames the parents for the death of their child (or potential death, for the other parents in the audience with children).

    If you're just trying to call the parents stupid or unfit don't call it a "deadly mistake". Using such a term clearly blames the parent for their child's death.
     
  5. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    I'm sure that there are "experts" who think that kids shouldn't watch The Three Stooges... or Roadrunner cartoons either.
     
  6. runner861

    runner861 Icon

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    Taking the child to the movie has nothing to do with the crimes that were committed by the shooter here. And I don't say allegedly committed by the shooter--despite his ultimate right to a trial, I am satisfied that he committed numerous crimes.

    But what we are seeing is human behavior when we see the criticism of the parents. And humans make up juries. And jurors want to impose their version of justice, not uphold the law, in many cases.

    That is why a woman wearing suggestive clothing and going up to a guy's room at a fraternity party, where she is raped, will be harshly judged by a jury and the rapist is going to walk. She should have known better. The same woman wearing conservative clothing and walking out of a library when she is raped will more favorably impress a jury.

    And don't use that ATM at 3am. The question in the jury's mind becomes, not was this guy held up at gunpoint, but why was he at the ATM at 3am? He should have known better.
     
  7. cj9788

    cj9788 Hall Of Fame

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    Okay we get it, we get it. Stop beating a dead horse, you and you alone speak for all children all over the world and you and you alone are all knowing in the ways of raising children. Kudos to you.

    Now lets watch more and more of our civil rights disappear because of a national tragedy. The second and fourth amendments are going to take a beating because of this lunatic. I for one can not wait to see what happens next.
     
  8. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    There are warnings at the beginning of Looney Tunes discs that they are for adult viewers only. I agree in a way, not because of cartoon violence, but for some you must understand historical context.
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    Whoa! I think I'm gonna be in BIG trouble. :eek:
     
  10. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Hardly. The poor choices of these 'parents' are being brought up on nearly every board across the web I've read that's discussing this case.

    Children under 12 need to be at home, in bed at that time of night.
     
  11. runner861

    runner861 Icon

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    Well, I will just say a couple of things. I believe that the NRA has successfully fought any laws that would allow the monitoring of ammunition or gun purchases. And the government can't just monitor internet transactions of anyone without a search warrant. And getting a search warrant requires probable cause. I don't see anything that this shooter did prior to the incident that would constitute probable cause.

    Could a security guard have stopped this? Maybe, maybe not. Anything could have stopped it, including perhaps a flat tire when he was driving to the theater.

    Is having a midnight showing a good idea? No, I don't think so, but I don't see midnight showings going away.

    As far as the Fred Willard situation goes, it is very easy to distinguish. Fred Willard is in a theater open to the public. All vice has to do is purchase a ticket and go in and look around. If they see someone doing something illegal, they make an arrest. Monitoring private transactions on the internet and watching someone requires a search warrant in most cases, and there just wasn't any evidence that would allow for a search warrant here. That is our 4th Amendment, another one of our freedoms at work.

    I don't essentially disagree with many of your assertions, but I know the way things are in the US that nothing is likely to change as a result of this incident. It won't even be in the news anymore by this time next week. See, people are already calling it an incident, rather than a mass murder.
     
  12. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    No one is going to take away civil rights, that's just typical FUD from these incidents. People will want some gun control, however the gun carriers will go into fear mode that the government is taking away our rights.

    When you hear gun control, most people don't want guns taken away...they want some better restrictions. For example, is it really a necessary right to carry a AR15 with 100+ rounds? Or should their be no red flags when a single person buys a small arsenal within a few days?
     
  13. cj9788

    cj9788 Hall Of Fame

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    That is the problem, 12 people killed scores of others wounded and what are people talking about? The fact that there were kids at the midnight movie.

    There seems to be more outrage and more rantings about kids being there than there is about the actual shootings. Leave the parents alone and concern yourself with the act, how it was planed and successfully carried out.
     
  14. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    But how would you stop it? Sure you could put limits on how much ammo can be bought from one supplier in a given time period. But what would stop you from buying from multiple suppliers in different states or countries? A cross check database? They can't even get that going between doctors and pharmacies to protect against deadly drug interactions.

    Do you mandate that shippers report when someone gets a lot of packages? That would work out well, for someone staring a small business or planning a large party.
     
  15. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    +1 million. It reminds me of the thread you had about your son's nightmares, but everyone jumped you for what you watched with them. It's your dang kids!
     
  16. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    You don't have to stop it, but it should be monitored. Had this nutjub had a Muslim name, I bet anything the government and Homeland Security would've been on him...quick.
     
  17. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    It isn't necessary for any private individual to have that type or weapon at all.

    A 30.06 bolt action rifle is fine for hunting. A .22 or similar is fine for sport target shooting and competition. A small caliber revolver would work for self protection. A pump shotgun with a 5 round capacity would meet other needs.

    Those meet the 2nd while protecting society from extremists.

    NO ONE needs a small arsenal. NO ONE.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    But what if the way he's raising his dang kids encourages them to grow up and kill my dang kids?

    That is the argument being made by those (on TV and elsewhere) who claim that children being immersed in such violent imagery at such a young age. That somehow attending a PG-13 movie performance with their parents will scar the child for life. That somehow watching such a performance at midnight is levels worse than watching a 9pm or earlier showing. That 18 years from now the 6 year old who was killed in the audience in Aurora Colorado might have grown up to be a mass killer herself because of her exposure to a PG-13 film.

    I don't agree with that argument ... but there it is. How one raised their dang kids affects us all. Or so "they" would like us to believe.
     
  19. cj9788

    cj9788 Hall Of Fame

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    It is so much easier for people to find faults and then pick on those faults rather than dealing with the situation in it's entirety.

    This weekend my family went to a nine pm movie, it got out at 11:30, we then went to Sonic and did not head home til well after midnight. I would be considered a bad parent if anything bad happened. What if I crashed on the way home, what if some nut jobs pulled a gun at Sonic and started shooting, what if a million different things happened? I am going to be held to scorn and ridicule because of an agenda about raising kids. Screw that, this is not about how people raise kids, this is about a guy who planned an attack and carried it out with precision.
     
  20. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    How dare you be out that late!!!! ;) Sonic is where the "bad seeds" it our town would congregate at night...they never hurt anyone there, but they were there...at night!!!!! ;)
     

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