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Potential causes for 2 HR24's with recording glitches in the same place?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by MISpat, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    That seems to be a singularly-held opinion, and I do not let such an opinion bother me because all I have to do is consider the source.

    Here is a much more widely-held opinion, which is that you obviously have a long-running bone to pick with me because I have inadvertently proven you to be so very wrong on so very many subjects so very many times (certainly never on purpose, but you have a knack for turning yourself into collateral damage whenever the actual truth emerges, and only you can control where you stand when the [metaphorical] bombs eventually go off).

    If you could do that to me, I would probably be inclined to make up nasty things to say about you, too. But I won't, because unlike you I am willing to obey forum rules and not attack other members, which you have now done a number of times. Like I say, that doesn't really bother me but for the sake of the other members here I guess I will have to report you. Again.

    One definition of a good Engineer is someone who devours any relevant info he can get his hands on, and who is not afraid to ask questions, which are both tools that they use to get good in the first place.

    One definition of a bad Engineer is someone who refuses to at least evaluate information they might come across on a subject, even if it is right in front of him staring him in the face, and is afraid to ask questions because that might admit that they did not know something beforehand; someone who has no natural curiosity and is easily derailed by their own petty agenda.

    From the history of our posts, it is pretty easy to see which category each of us might fall in. Those who are paying attention should be able to easily decide, but here's a hint: we really don't fall into the same category.

    Our latest example is that you "did not read any farther lsic]", because you knew about the principle of signal reflection in waveguide technology. Good for you, but what "not reading farther [sic]" means is you still don't know that I actually addressed that in the post as supporting evidence for my argument, a practice you have failed to do in any of your posts.

    I also explained just a paragraph or two later exactly why even though there actually is reflection, why that just does not matter in this particular situation (terminator caps on subscriber ports in consumer RF distribution scenarios). And the answer is definitive and clear-cut, and pretty easy to understand if you also understand anything about the physics of RF distribution technology and how interference may or may not manifest as a problem.

    But you missed all of that, because you were more concerned with the fact that you keyed in on what you know vs what you think I might not know, not understanding (because you didn't read "far" enough) that I already understand it intimately better than you apparently do. Instead we were treated to yet another knee-jerk wild-ass jump to a false conclusion, your signature pattern.

    A good Engineer, in the same position as you as a reader of my post, might have the initial reaction to the first couple of lines in my post as "What? Doesn't this guy understand reflections in coax cable? Isn't that the problem and the termination the solution?" But a good Engineer's reaction to that would be "Here's a mystery and an apparent conflict with what I think I know; I think maybe I'll read the next sentence or two and see if there is an answer to the mystery and a resolution to the conflict. I might actually learn something." And having good discipline, that is exactly what a good Engineer would then do.

    A bad Engineer might see the mystery and conflict, but since he might not have the important natural curiosity that makes good Engineers good, could get diverted easily by another, sometimes personal petty agenda. The bad Engineer's reaction to the first 10 words of my post might be "Aha, I think I finally got this guy, so I can't wait to shoot from the hip and post back about how clever I am. Maybe that will revalidate some of the credibility I lost in the last 10 posts I made by diminishing his credibility today". And if that "Engineer" were also petty and vindictive, he might also try to use that as a cudgel to beat me over the head with while telling me how terrible I am. The problem with that is how really bad it starts to look when you are completely wrong because you didn't have the basic capacity to follow through in the first place. Oops. That makes you Will Ferrel trying to beat Zach Galifinakis to kissing the baby first in The Candidate (see the movie; its hilarious).

    And anyone who is actually paying attention to the thread can easily determine what actually happened here, and who to categorize how, based on what has been posted.

    Again, if I knew you I would probably like you. I have no dog in any fight here, and I have no reason to attack you, which I have not. You have, and so I have simply responded. How that makes you look due to your behavior is really only sad to me; I take no pleasure in this. But it is my duty to set the record straight.

    Bottom line, it is pretty clear that I might have even forgotten more about this subject than you might ever have the capacity to learn. If I were you, I'd give up while I was still only this far behind. There is no upside in you continuing. This is another classic "knife to a gunfight" blunder on your part. I'd really much rather bury the hatchet.
     
  2. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I'd listen to VOS's suggestion and buy them at Solid Signal, they have the right equipment for just about anything we need. He's one of the more dependable resources we have.

    Rich
     
  3. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    VOS sent you the correct link to the terminators. They've got 75Ω resistors in them, and that's what you need. God only knows what you'll find at a Home Depot or a Lowes.

    Rich
     
  4. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    His opinion isn't "singular". We all make mistakes, but you make some whoppers. The "frequency of DC voltage" is one thing you've posted that I'll never forget.

    And I kinda get a kick out of some of your briefer posts. No animosity on my part, but...

    Rich
     
  5. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    You are absolutely right. It really will not hurt. But it also really will not help. Just don't pretend I didn't warn you. If I was talented enough to explain it any more clearly, I would have. But I'm not. I might even be the worst Engineer in 40 years, according to some of those just really not paying attention (which explains my sig). But they are on their own.

    It is good to feed the economy, even if the effort (payment for goods) might be in vain. Go for it. It's superstitious behavior, but it might make you feel better just because you did something, even something that won't make a difference otherwise. You need to feel like you have some control over this; a need to make order from chaos. I get it; that's a universal human reaction, even if ineffective and pointless; we all do stuff like that all the time, even though that is the mortal enemy of evolution. I'm no better; I just try to do such things with my eyes already open. But Home Depot needs you.

    Ever watch an ant hill? Lots of energy expended, but only a small percentage of it is all that effective. Humans are like ants, only with cellphones.
     
  6. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This has been an on going problem.
    I've had to post screen shots to prove you wrong.
    I've had to school you in the type of splitters used,
    I've had you simply trash me here, so don't play "the forum rules" game.
    I've had you fight tooth and nail before pointing out I²R losses and you had nothing left for a come back.

    If you were only as smart as you think you are, reading your posts might be worth something, but even then, you go on so long it's hard to pick out "the gems" from the trash.
     
  7. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    You could have fooled me. Thanks :rolleyes: for the most back-handed of compliments in the history of internet forums.

    And the "frequency of DC voltage" (actually current) is a real thing, and it equals zero Hertz. This is the way an engineering-oriented mind considers that question. That you can't envision it that way is on you; those of us that were not condemned to community college have no problem with that definition. If the question is "At what frequency does DC current oscillate?", which is a question a college professor I studied under actually wrote on the board at the start of an early freshman 1st-semester class once upon a time, there is but one true answer. You wanna guess whose hand went up first?

    Go ahead. Argue with or laugh at a University curriculum and its seasoned college professor. The rest of us will wait right here until you are done.

    If that is your "whopper" example, I think I'm pretty safe. Slap on the cuffs.

    About the only thing and the worst thing from my POV that I ever got questioned about here that I could not provide a reasonable answer to was when I speculated, speculated, that "auto-power-off" might really have some value. Might. And the only reason that stood is because no one could find any real evidence either way to prove or disprove it, other than documents written before it was ever designed as a feature, which therefore could not be applicable (even Judge Judy would have thrown those out). Who knew? Nobody here, that was for sure.

    I am absolutely willing to admit the possibility of DTV adding a feature that doesn't really do anything, but honestly? Jury is actually still out, even on that one. And even if it were not, my posts were from the point of view of "if this is the case...", not "this is the case". Open speculation is open speculation (look it up), and allowed, not something you can accuse someone of being off base about without that being a cheap shot.

    The entire concept of phasing something using terms like "DTV is making this claim; if this is the case..." is by definition an unspoken declaration that whether it may be a fact or not, it is something not yet in evidence. I don't know, nor does anyone else, but that does not mean I am making a sweeping declaration that it is the truth. Ferchrissakes. The penalty box has a count-down clock for a reason.

    So if you are going to accuse me of "whoppers", I think I have the right to face my accuser, don't you think? This is your opportunity to bring them on, and defend that position that you just planted your flag in, and if you don't, that makes it nothing more than simple name-calling (and you"re better than that). Or else it's on, and I will be forced to unearth some of your many head-shaking whoppers. You really don't want that. :D

    I could speak more slowly if that will help.
     
  8. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Think one of these is needed: :backtotop

    The Thread was about glitches, and not really pissing on each other.

    I am guilty too, but was replying to a falsehood that needed it.

    From there things do seem to be just repeating old battles that may best be left as "old news".

    The falsehood was mixing up this:

    [​IMG]

    With this:

    [​IMG]
     

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  9. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    Since you have unilaterally decided to take the gloves off; once again, there is nothing here to support any of these allegations. At least you are predictable.

    A laundry list of unsupported allegations still carries no weight; just because it is in the form of a laundry list does not make it any more credible. None of the rest of us are that stupid. Nice pathetic try. And deep down, you know I'm right. As you stare at the inside of your eyelids at bedtime tonight, that truth will be what makes you reach for the Ambien.

    I would really like to see this scary notorious "screen shot" and its context. I would really be interested to hear you attempt to define "school you", and in its historical context according to you. Enlighten me with that famous imaginary wisdom one more time (or at least one time). But no, completely empty rhetoric with zero support seems to be your stock in trade.

    I'd say "I'm still waiting", but when I do you never can support even the strongest of your consistently lame arguments. You've yet to bring anything here that ever supported anything you claim. Never. Not once. Why would that change now? So much for burying the hatchet, I guess. At least I tried.

    <edit> Oh, OK. Now you've posted a line drawing that seems to indicate that RF can travel both directions at once. Fascinating. Congrats. And an inscrutable screen shot of the insides of.....what? Doesn't look much like a subscriber tap or power divider. You've stumped me. Both with your picture and your intent. <edit>​

    So the only position you have left for me that I can take with you is "put up or shut up"; otherwise I'm out. And if you think no response from me, either in the past or the future, means you've "won", somehow, you might have another think coming. That's just one more in a series of giant leaps to the wrong conclusion (almost completely predictable by now; I can almost set my watch to you blundering into the wrong answer).

    What that usually means is that I have grown weary of defending myself in a ridiculous battle of wits against an opponent that is completely unarmed, especially one that I never asked an opinion of in the first place; that I didn't is your first clue that I couldn't really give two $#!+s what you think. But I won't be goaded into continuing an unfair fight, because I have the basic human capacity of mercy, which you have no apparent acquaintance with. I also have a life to lead; I'm not like a few of the forum members here, 100 years old, battling creeping dementia, and just whiling away the hours mindlessly on the internet while waiting for the sweet release of death. If the shoe fits...

    Mom always said "if you can't say something nice..." but unfortunately the best I can come up with is that your mother probably loved you (oh, she didn't? Sorry) and that you have a very active imagination (but then so does the Batman shooter, and he's bat-$#!+ crazy). Full of it up to here, and the rest is toilet paper.

    Best regards.
     
  10. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This isn't getting back to the topic, so no reply.
     
  11. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    A credible excuse if I ever heard one.

    Thought so.
     
  12. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    You're welcome.

    Nope that won't work. The "invention" of "zero" was a great step forward in our way of thinking. It still means "nothing". Or no measurable phase.

    You don't have to worry about speaking (or typing, which is what we're doing, in reality) slowly to me. I have a pretty good filter for BS.

    Now, after all this self-aggrandizing litany about your qualifications, can we get back to Topic?

    Rich
     
  13. nsolot

    nsolot AllStar

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    If there really is a (G/M)od, I'm hoping (H/Sh)e will close this thread
     
  14. MISpat

    MISpat Legend

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    That would be fine with me. I haven't gotten the terminators yet but I haven't had the problem yet since he swapped me to a BB DECA. (and I've been watching a TON of recorded programs the past couple of days)
     
  15. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    As I said in my first post about terminations, I'm not sure it would fix your problem, but that the open ports should be terminated.
    Changing a BB DECA should have no effect on the SWiM signals, as they're in different bands.
     
  16. MISpat

    MISpat Legend

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    Doesn't make sense to me either and I'm still uneasy about this being the final solution, but so far so good and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. (Perhaps a network blip sends something to the receiver which causes a glitch? I'm guessing here)

    I'll definitely get the terminators in the next week or two but I like to try one thing at a time to help isolate the issue.
     
  17. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Testing various steps is a good thing.
    "Perhaps a network blip" doesn't have a lot of merit, so I'd still keep my eyes on things because it was something else.
    As with the terminations, even changing the BB DECA has had an effect on the RF path(s).
     
  18. MISpat

    MISpat Legend

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    Is there a simple way of explaining how the BB DECA/RF path would or could affect or not affect these glitches? I read through the RF path posts but was completely clueless as to what you guys were talking about :eek2:
     
  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Good question.

    Let's try the old drop a pebble in water, where waves move out in all directions.

    The SWiM is the source of the waves, which travel down the coax, and split down the coax to the receivers, and DECAs at the end.

    With the pebble, when the waves hit something they bounce back and interact with the forward waves. This can cause the peaks to double, cancel, and everything in between, depending on where they meet each other.

    The RF waves do the same thing, so the idea is to not have them bounce back. Terminations are used for this.
    Changing anything at the end of a coax can change "the bounce", as there will always be a reflection, but when things are working correctly, "the bounce" is small.
     
  20. MISpat

    MISpat Legend

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    Thanks VOS, that makes a lot more sense to me!
    So perhaps the BB DECA (as opposed to the regular DECA) could make a difference in reducing the bounce back... thoughts?
     

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