R.I.P. my trusty HR20-700

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Tony Chick, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. Tony Chick

    Tony Chick Legend

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    I've had this HR20-700 since they were first released but now I'm getting 0% strength on Tuner 2. Tuner 1 has 95%. I swapped cables at the box, including the BBCs and that stayed the same which proves to me that Tuner 1 can get good signal off either cable, and Tuner 2 can't get one from either.

    DirecTV won't buy this of course and insists on sending a tech out to check it since its "signal related". Is there something he could do to "wake up" a dead tuner or is he just coming out here to swap the box?.
     
  2. WestDC

    WestDC Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    he's comming to swap the box
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Lower...
    You can try re-running satellite set-up, for the heck of it. And if that doesn't work, try a "Reset Everything", which will reset your box to the factory defaults.

    Neither of those may help, but you have nothing to lose except some time, since the box is going to be swapped-out anyhow.
     
  4. Sifford

    Sifford New Member

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    I ran into the same problem with one of my tuners....after extensive testing with the customer service support rep, they wanted to send someone out. I didn't want to waste a day off of work to allow this so I asked to speak to a manager and they agreed to just send me the box....something to consider if you are 99% sure its a tuner issue and don't want to deal with having someone come out to your house....just keep pushing and they'll given in.
     
  5. Xsabresx

    Xsabresx Icon

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    You might go ahead and let them come out. I had the exact same thing happen and it turned out a cable had gone bad at the connection and blew out the tuner (so the tech said). He replaced the line, then replaced the box. Now I want it to happen again since the HR20 was replaced with a nice black HR23. I still have one HR20.
     
  6. Tony Chick

    Tony Chick Legend

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    Well he's here now. Despite showing him that Tuner 1 works with either cable, he's decided its a cable. So far he's replaced all 4 lines coming into my Den and the LNB/Multiswitch unit on the dish. We shall see...
     
  7. AirShark

    AirShark Legend

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    Headache beginning in 3...2...1...:nono2:
     
  8. RobertE

    RobertE Active Member

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    He's doing what he's supposed to. He's supposed to check the system end to end. After ruling everything else out, then he can replace the box. Sure, in some cases you can say it's the box, but it's his paycheck thats on the line. Some HSPs hit the tech with a charge back if his fix really didn't fix the problem and someone else needs to come out in X number of days.

    He's just being cautious.
     
  9. AirShark

    AirShark Legend

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    I hear what you're saying, but if you unplug the cable currently plugged into non-functioning Tuner #2 and plug it in to the currently working Tuner #1...and then Tuner #1 works, that's all the troubleshooting you need. If you really want to go overboard, you could unplug the "known good" feed from Tuner #1 and stick it into Tuner #2 I guess although it seems pointless. Anything else involving replacing cabling after those results and that point is just bad troubleshooting.
     
  10. David MacLeod

    David MacLeod New Member

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    so you're pretty much saying there cannot be an intermittent issue causing a permanent tuner failure as a result.
    good luck with that.
     
  11. AirShark

    AirShark Legend

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    I could very well be ignorant. I am not a professional installer. Just so that I know if/when I have to troubleshoot my own system in the future, (I don't like the installers coming to my house so I do my own work/installation) what could/should I be looking for to indicate an "intermittent" issue causing permanent tuner failure? What could cause an intermittent error? If the cabling is bad, which is what is being replaced currently, how do you know other than checking levels? How do you test for this other than a sat-signal meter or ohmmeter? Do the techs carry equipment to sweep a few GHz to tell that the cable is bad? What could possibly be wrong with his coax other than it being shorted from core to shield or it being squished so bad that you have signal degradation from the foam dielectric being so thin that it is useless? I didn't think the LNB pushed any voltage down the line to hurt the tuner. So, and I'm being 100% serious here and non-sarcastic, what intermittent issue could cause Tuner #2 to stop functioning while the same cabling functions perfectly on Tuner #1? I know he's not using SWM because he's got BBCs on. What out of the LNB, multiswitch, cabling, connectors, and the tuner itself could be doing what intermittent harmful activity to hurt the tuner? If I have an opportunity to learn here, I would like that very much.
     
  12. RobertE

    RobertE Active Member

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    An intermittant short can cause tuner 2 to go offline to prevent any additional damage. The DVR can revert to single tuner mode. So tuner 1 is always powered, tuner 2 is off. When the line issue is resolved a reboot and/or re doing the sat setup powers up tuner 2.
     
  13. AirShark

    AirShark Legend

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    Oct 28, 2006
    That makes some sense. So, if he were to take known good cabling from tuner #1, plug it into tuner #2 and do a reboot or his sat-setup again, tuner #2 should come back on unless it has been damaged by some other internal fault right? If the tuners also have built-in short protection, are the tuner electronics so sensitive that they are 'technically' able to be destroyed permanently by something like a cable short? If it has built-in auto-shutdown protection I would hope that permanent damage is not the case, although you're right that anything could be possible. I've seen stranger things :)

    I've worked for a major telecom carrier and the military for a decade or so now and I work with many different types of coax/fiber/waveguide daily...assembling connectors, testing faults, sweeping cable and transmission line among other things. My problem with all the cable replacing talk is that usually if I have a bad cable it's one of two things: 1. The connector on either end was assembled improperly or the cable was stripped improperly. 2. Someone has cut/friction burned through the cable jacket/insulation/shielding causing the cable to not work 100% of the time. I'm just wondering if the cable is a concern and the cabling works on another tuner, why replace the whole run instead of just re-terminating the connectors? What symptoms would you check for to find an intermittent short other than holding a meter against it for a long period of time? If I just re-ran all of the cabling on, lets say, a DS3 cross connect every time I had a coax cable problem, I would be wasting huge blocks of time in my already-busy day you know? Are DTV installers instructed as common practice to just re-run the entire coax run when a tuner has a signal problem to cut down on troubleshooting time and/or errors? Is it just to keep the process as simple as possible for them when they're in the field?

    Thanks for the good info BTW, I love this stuff and I love learning new problems to consider when troubleshooting.

    Tony- I'd love to hear what fixed this in the end.
     
  14. RobertE

    RobertE Active Member

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    Some of it is just the individuals techs CYA level. Whatever he feels comfortable with.

    Sometimes, it's just easier to yank it all out and start over vs trying to figure out what exactly is the problem. Not the most effecient use of time & materials, but the goal is a working stable system. DirecTv does not currently care about the amount of time or materials used. They just want it to work.
     
  15. Tony Chick

    Tony Chick Legend

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    Thanks for all the feedback folks, like others I like to learn and was open to my assessment being wrong despite it seeming open and shut.

    He replaced everything except the receiver. New Dish LNB/Multiswitch, cables inside and out for both HR20s, connected it all up and ..... no signal on Tuner 2. So there is now a refurb black HR21 there instead of the HR20, with all shiny new wiring and a good signal on Tuner 2. 2 Hours total for what turned out to be a 10 minute job.
     
  16. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

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    In that case the correct diagnostic procedure would be to swap swap cables between tuner inputs and reboot.... if the same tuner still fails and the other tuner still works, there isn't any logical indication of a line problem.
     
  17. RobertE

    RobertE Active Member

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    Thats the problem with intermittant problems. Doing as you suggest doesn't identify why the tuner failed, only that it failed. With the heavy handed chargebacks that some locations hit the techs with, I can't fault the guy for doinging what he did.

    Say all he did was swap the box. In & out in 10 minutes. Maybe makes $20 on the service call. But that box has the same issue later this week. He now gets hit with a SIN7, possibly a charge back costing him considerably more than the $20 he made on the call. Having high SIN#'s can also reduce his pay scale for the next X number of days too.
     
  18. RobertE

    RobertE Active Member

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    The important thing is that your back up and running. Also, just nearly as important, your system is now most likely up to spec as well. :)
     
  19. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    If the tech did carry spectrum analyzer, he would spend 5 min for signal check and other 5 min for DVR swap for the SVC.
     
  20. MikeW

    MikeW Hall Of Fame

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    But as Robert pointed out, maybe something with the self-wiring installation is what fried tuner 2. What happens to the installer if the second box loses tuner 2 in a couple of weeks?
     

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