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Recorded shows begin 25 seconds late

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Bradcny, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. Feb 3, 2011 #1 of 37
    Bradcny

    Bradcny AllStar

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    I'm having a rather odd issue with my DVR. I do not have LIL yet, so I have an AM21 integrated into my setup so that I can record OTA broadcasts. The problem I am having is that 99% of the time, when I have recorded a show via OTA, it records the entire broadcast, but when I press play, it starts playing about 25 seconds into it. I'm really asking more out of curiosity than it being a real problem, but can it be fixed or is it just a glitch I have to live with?
     
  2. Feb 3, 2011 #2 of 37
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Keep in mind that there's a buffer at the beginning of recordings too. Many of my shows do that too, because the networks have begun starting shows a bit earlier than they should. Have you tried rewinding to the beginning (the beginning is not where play starts from)?
     
  3. Feb 3, 2011 #3 of 37
    Bradcny

    Bradcny AllStar

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    Yes. As a matter of fact, I had originally thought they were recording late, but it's all there. It just plays 25 seconds into it.
     
  4. Feb 3, 2011 #4 of 37
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    And you've rewound it after hitting play?
     
  5. Feb 3, 2011 #5 of 37
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    There's a semi-hidden feature that, when possible, starts a recording 30 seconds early so that if there is a disparity between DIRECTV time and program time, you can back up.
     
  6. Feb 3, 2011 #6 of 37
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Yes, there is a a feature called Soft Padding that starts the program 30 seconds early and ends it 90 seconds late (when possible). So you can rewind from where the program actually starts on your DVR.

    You can also go 90 seconds after the end of the recording as well .. :)

    The "when possible" part is if a program is being recorded on the same channel before or after a recording .. OR .. if there is no recording at all.

    This is one of my most favorite features and it's so ubiquitous that people don't even realize it's there.
     
  7. Feb 3, 2011 #7 of 37
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    SHHHH, [it doesn't always work though]
     
  8. Feb 3, 2011 #8 of 37
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Close enough for Government work ...
     
  9. Feb 3, 2011 #9 of 37
    jdspencer

    jdspencer Hall Of Fame

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    Now there's an oxymoron!!!

    The Tonight Show with Jay Leno is a fine example of the actual show starting sooner than what's scheduled. If you want to see the beginning credits, you need to back up after you start playback.
     
  10. Racer88

    Racer88 Icon

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    One of the many ongoing and obviously never going to actually be fixed issues with DirecTV branded equipment. Gotta love a timing dependant piece of equipment that can't keep accurate time. :nono2:

    As allready mentioned they instead hacked in the above measures to over compensate for their overall incompetence to actually fix the problem. This seems to be their norm.
     
  11. DogLover

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    Actually, it is just as likely that the error is on the side of the channels. From the evidence I've seen, the vast majority of my recordings work just fine with the DirecTV timing. I only have a occasional problems where I have to REW into the beginning padding.

    Without resorting to checking the DVR time against an atomic clock, I would conclude (from my evidence) that my DVRs keep very good time, but some broadcasters don't. YMMV.
     
  12. Bradcny

    Bradcny AllStar

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    That was actually one of the shows I was going to use as an example. That and Jeopardy! I thought it was a problem with the am21 since it only happens on ota recordings.
     
  13. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The problem is not with the equipment. The problem is with the broadcasters saying they're going to start it at 8:00:00 and then actually starting it as 7:59:22 (as an example). This could be due to incorrect time @ the broadcaster or something intentional on their part to play games with their ratings.

    The DIRECTV equipment clock is updated via Sat continuously.
     
  14. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    And more than that, the whole time system is not as obvious as you would think. Sure, you can sync to a time server and that will get your computers correct. But the whole system has latency. Satellite-delivered network programming gets fed up to the network satellite, then is pulled down, then possibly post-processed, possibly fed through the station's DVR system, then sent to the broadcast facility that processes and re-encodes as necessary, then is sent either through wired or satellite back to DIRECTV where it is re-re-encoded and sent back up to a satellite. At minimum the stuff is traveling 88,000 miles to get to you. Pretty amazing that anyone does anything on time When you think about it.
     
  15. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    You can pretty much bet that DIRECTV uses something that is similar in accuracy to an atomic clock for their time-based stuff. The differential isn't 25-30 seconds in any event.

    The solution probably lies in using more padding owing to the fact that networks have shown an increasing bent towards not starting programs on time (one way or the other). It has been my experience that they tend to run late as opposed to early. I think they figure that they can hook someone at the beginning of a recording of something they want to watch.
     
  16. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    That latency, small as it is, can mostly be accounted for. I'm betting that provisions could easily be made to account for the relatively consistent difference between LIL and OTA.

    One round trip to the Clarke belt takes about 250ms.

    While composing this post I did a Slingbox experiment comparing my local ABC affiliate using PIP with the OTA and LIL versions (PIP removes any buffering issues). The delay was approximately 10 seconds. It was surprising how long the delay is, but it is obviously dependent on the encoding gear and perhaps how the stream is obtained (by OTA or direct data stream from the station).
     
  17. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    And how does that have any bearing on industrial-quality encoding equipment of varying ages and professional broadcasting systems?
     
  18. CCarncross

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    Since the actual D* stb is only 1 of literally 100 pieces in the chain that will affect the timing of when the recording starts, and what gets recorded, its awfully hard to stick the blame in one place.....
     
  19. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    As I thought I made clear, using PIP to display both the LIL and OTA incarnations effectively takes the Sling encoding out of the picture.
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    The 30-second pre-pad is a life-saver for about 1/3 of the shows we record. When you play back a recording, DirecTV cues playback at the point it "should" have started, but I find that only works for about 2/3 of the shows on my PLAYLIST. I still have to hit REPLAY once or twice and go into the pre-pad to find the true beginning of many shows.

    Even then, there are some shows, like our local FOX 7:30 re-runs of The Office, that routinely start over 30 seconds early. As a result, I'd love to see a 60/60 second pre/post pad, rather than the current 30/90 seconds, but that's just me. :)

    As Doug noted earlier, in order to get a pre- or post-pad on a recording, that show's tuner needs to be free on either side of the show, or recording (or scheduled to record) other shows on the same channel. For folks with MRV set-ups and multiple DVR's, I find it helps to divvy up your SL's across boxes to ensure that's usually the case. So, e.g, I keep NBC and ABC SL's on one box, CBS and FOX on another, and everything else on a third DVR.
     

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