Regional Sports Networks

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Rosthol, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Rosthol

    Rosthol New Member

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    I talked to a couple of Customer Service reps from Dish this week.

    They say that the RSN's "might" be back next week.

    Does anyone believe that?

    Also what is up with the MyDish Communties Discussion forums being ended.

    Any thoughts
     
  2. DavidP

    DavidP New Member

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    I just spoke with them and here is what I believe- they want nothing to do with regional sports networks and need to tell us that. I live in Chicago area and NBC sports has been blocked since before October-- now comes word they will NOT be making an agreement with Marquis- the Cubs new network... sadly as a 20 year customer, I am done and going elsewhere unless my info is wrong
     
  3. Rosthol

    Rosthol New Member

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    I kind of agree with you but I have bee calling since July.

    This is the first time anyone at Dish has remotely even suggested they might be back.

    If the RSN's aren't back by the end of the month I will be back on the phone with them.

    This was also the first month since July they declined to give me a credit for not having FSMW.

    I have also said look if you aren't going to get the RSN's back say that.

    Just wondering how many people are still holding out hope that the RSN's come back to Dish.

    My problem is my only option is Direct TV.

    Something I don't know I can do.

    My internet speed is only 15 Mbps. So streaming is out.
     
  4. zippyfrog

    zippyfrog Mentor

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    If they aren't back by baseball season, I think they will be gone permanently, and the remaining RSN's will not be renewed as they come up for renewal. Back when they dropped the FOX RSN's back in July, Ergen said that the most avid RSN's viewers was for baseball. If we get to to baseball season and the avid RSN viewers are elsewhere, they aren't coming back. The only thing Dish wants is for RSN's to be in an add-on package so those that want to buy it can but not pass the costs to others.
     
  5. techguy88

    techguy88 Active Member

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    At this rate I would bet that pigs will fly by next week than Dish adding back any of the RSNs they are in a dispute with. Your better off praying Dish and AT&T decide to spin Dish Network and DirecTV into their own separate company where AT&T is the majority share holder so the contracts they negotiated can be extended to Dish.

    See... there is 1 little wrinkle in Ergen's grand plan for the Fox Sports RSNs, YES Network and Marquee and that is Sinclair. Sure he and Dish can hold out on carrying them in hopes they agree to sports tier placement or some other carriage that he wants (which would trigger every other provider's most favored nations clause) but they will be added back eventually. The thing is Sinclair has been bundling this group of RSNs into its main O&O local station agreement which includes Tennis Channel with other providers. First it was Charter Spectrum then it was AT&T (DirecTV, U-Verse TV, AT&T TV, AT&T TV Now) and so on and so on. The longer Ergen drags this out eventually Dish's retransmission agreement for 136 local stations in 86 markets that Sinclair owns outright will come up for renewal. Then Dish and Ergen will have a decision... do we enter into a prolong mass local blackout over a group of RSNs or do we give in and resume carrying the Fox Sports RSNs and add YES Network and Marquee to our lineups? Time will tell but local stations that's the big one.

    Since NBC Sports Network Chicago is negotiating individually from the rest of NBCUniversal they really have no leverage. If you are looking for a provider that has both NBC Sports Chicago and the Cubs new network the Death Star's DirecTV managed to secure a deal for continued carriage of NBC Sports Chicago and also has an agreement in place to carry the Cubs Network at launch on February 22, 2020 (channel placement TBA speculation is either 664 or 666 :Do_O )
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  6. Rosthol

    Rosthol New Member

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    I would find it hard to believe as well but hope springs eternal.

    Who knows when the Sinclair O&O stations will be negotiated though.
    Could be years yet.

    If it is not back by baseball I will see if they will give me MLB Extra Innings for free as compensation.

    I think MLB just might relax its rules regarding blackouts from what I have read recently.

    They gave me NHL Center Ice for free for the who,e season but I can't see my local team even though the Dish Rep said I would be able to.

    I love it when the Dish rep says I am missing those channels back as well. Like I care what they are missing?
     
  7. zippyfrog

    zippyfrog Mentor

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  8. Rosthol

    Rosthol New Member

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    That is the only thing about counting the O&O negotiations as a way to get Dish back on the RSN bandwagon.

    It is going to be a long time.

    Guess they will be giving me more credits for awhile.
     
  9. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I'd like to see the FCC block tying locals carriage to cable channel carriage. There is language in Federal law that would support requiring separate negotiations. So far I have not seen it enforced.
     
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  10. dishrich

    dishrich Hall Of Fame

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    I find this VERY interesting re: Marquee - Ricketts even got booed at a Cub fan caravan a few days ago re: no Comcast deal:
    Chicago Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts booed over Marquee Sports Network
    Cubs’ Marquee TV network will launch on Feb. 22 with new on-air talent — but still no deal with Comcast

    And this:
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  11. AZ.

    AZ. Legend

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    You cant blame them....The lovable losers have been on free tv for almost 50 years all around the country, and now they wont even be able to see one game on free tv....I thought after what the Dodgers did, MLB would have stepped in of ball clubs make better decisions?
    I think the organization is a bit over confident of their base?
     
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  12. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    If the RSNs come back it will be for baseball. If they are not back within a week of baseball opening games, they will not be coming back.

    Problem with RSNs is the model is out of whack. Team owners want more and more. The provider cannot make any money and is on the hook for guaranteed sums. This is exactly why Fox bailed on them - it knew the landscape will getting real tough.

    DISH is trying to break the model. Many have stayed w/DISH all winter will leave for baseball....DISH knows that....so it's now or never....DISH seems ok with losing the channels....and may do so....we shall see.
     
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  13. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The Fox Sports channels were sold as part of Disney's agreement to get Department of Justice approval for the merger. The DOJ did not want Disney to own ESPN and the RSNs, considering such a combination to be anti-competitive. Fox sold their properties for $71 billion, Sinclair picked up the RSNs for around $10 billion. Not exactly a worthless portion of what was Fox a year ago.
     
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  14. zippyfrog

    zippyfrog Mentor

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    Being from Chicago, this is the reason they are booing. Granted, not having a deal with Comcast doesn't help. But at the Cubs convention, the booing was for moving all the non-national games to paid TV and having nothing left on free TV. The Cubs were on WGN for 72 straight years so that is multiple generations watching the Cubs as a family. The other facet of the booing, sort of coupled with Marquee and now paying to watch games, was that Tom Ricketts said there was no money to get better players and that any money coming from Marquee won't be seen for a couple of years. That doesn't sit well either because paying for the cable bill, you wonder where that extra money goes from Day 1.

    I still think baseball season is going to be the deciding factor if we see these RSN's back. At least the FOX RSN's. Not sure how NBC Sports Chicago will get back on - I see it going the way of NBC Sports Boston (back when it was a CSN channel and didn't come back). Nor do I see how Altitude gets back on.
     
    AZ. likes this.
  15. WebTraveler

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    Fox did not want the RSNs and unloaded them. The contracts were all coming up for renewal, and Fox knew they could not make money. Fox found a suitor in Disney, but Disney could not take them. Fox could have excluded them from the sale, but did not. Fox wanted out. It's not like Fox is out of the sports business, they still own FS1, FS2, Big 10 and other sports properties. They got rid of them because they knew they could not make money.

    Disney/Fox found a suitor in Sinclair. Sinclair's ego got in the way and Sinclair's balance sheet is upside down with the debt load it had to take on for this purchase. It's dragging them down. Sinclair overpaid. Sinclair is having a major problem getting the RSNs on DISH; Fubo just pulled them. Comcast has said when its contracts come up its going to take a long look. The model has changed. This channels need wide distribution to make any money for the provider - and there is incredible risk they will be on the hook and not be able to find a home for them.

     
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  16. techguy88

    techguy88 Active Member

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    The thing with Comcast is they are not an un-involved party in a lot of things they want their cake and eat it too. Comcast expects distributors to widely carry their NBCUniversal cable channels meanwhile they have a long track record of removing other media groups channels to add-on tiers or not making them available at all. They also expect their RSNs to continue to have broad carriage but want to reduce the carriage of others.

    Here are some examples of the changes they have made in 2019 and going into 2020. The first bullet point is a big one and potentially shows an abuse of market power in relation to Oxygen vs ID and WEtv.
    • In 2017 Oxygen was reformatted into a true-crime focused channel still targeting women. Beginning in 2019, Comcast has been slowly removing Investigation Discovery, WEtv and WGN America from their packages with no options to add them on. When existing customers go to either change their hardware or package they are informed they will lose them. Both ID and WEtv compete with Oxygen and some of WGN America's syndicated programs can be found on USA Network. ID is often ranked as the #1 true-crime formatted channel.
    • AT&T/WarnerMedia's Turner Classic Movies (TCM) was in their Digital Preferred package but moved it to an add-on Sports tier (in some areas its the Sports Entertainment Tier) in 2019. Customers who want TCM need to pay $10/mo more.
    • In mid-2019 an effort to reduce "redundancy" Comcast removed Cinemax from its Digital Premier package which (at the time) had other premiums like HBO, Showtime and Starz. Instead they replaced 3 of Cinemax's multiplex channels with their own service called Hitz 1-3. Hitz took the place of Cinemax in the Digital Premier package and customers wanting to keep Cinemax have to pay $12/mo more. For customers in lower packages that want Hitz they also price it at $12/mo.
      • Now the "Hitz" service Comcast has launched airs older movies than Cinemax and its catalog is primarily from Universal Studios (that Comcast owns) with some Sony Pictures and MGM films sprinkled into the mix. The films in question are ones that are typically re-sold as part of syndication packages to digi-nets, ad supported cable networks and other premiums services. So logically its reasonable to assume Comcast is operating Hitz on a lower budget than WarnerMedia's Cinemax. By having Hitz included in the package and not Cinemax Comcast will generate more money this way.
      • Its also worth noting the way WarnerMedia operates HBO and Cinemax when it comes to films. While they share the same film library WarnerMedia will rotate movies between the two services for months at a time ensuring when HBO premieres a film first Cinemax is not airing that film. When Cinemax premieres a film first HBO does not air that film.
    • After Power ends on Starz, Comcast will transition Starz to a complete a la carte service and replace it with Epix in its Digital Premier. Now for packages that don't include Starz its $12/mo and Epix is $5.99/mo now you would think that Comcast would lower the package by $5/mo wrong it will stay the same price plus any new year increase they do.
      • StarzEncore channels are being replaced with ScreenPix (joint venture between Comcast and Epix) (do not confuse this with their existing Streampix service). ScreenPix is 4 channels and based on their descriptions are designed to replace the entire StarzEncore/MoviePlex multiplexes.
      • In December 2019 Comcast removed 11 Starz owned multiplex channels (including some from StarzEncore, Indieplex and Retroplex) with no intention to restore them. Their reasoning is the channel space is required to launch Epix and ScreenPix.
    Comcast taking a hard stance on Regional Sports Networks is laughable as they own the second largest network of RSNs in the country. NBC Sports Regional Networks currently has 7 RSNs.
    • Comcast is in a dispute with Altitude Sports and apparently wants to cut their retransmission consent fee by 50-70%. They also (like Dish) want to move Altitude to a sports tier. On the other hand Comcast wants their group of 7 RSNs to be widely distributed in their respective regions and expect distributors to pay the high carriage fee. Altitude offered a 1 year extension to Comcast to avoid a blackout which they rejected.
      • If Comcast truly is wanting to do anything meaningful when it comes to RSNs then as the industry leader they need to follow by example. Firstly they need to move their own RSN group to a Sports Tier and allow all other distributors to do the same.
      • If they want other RSNs to charge less then they need to charge less for their own RSNs. (Only fair)
      • Comcast's words and actions to non-Comcast owned RSNs mean absolutely nothing unless they apply those same words and actions to their own RSNs.
      • AT&T actually had more to gain from a long, protracted blackout of Altitude as the coverage area for Altitude overlaps with the AT&T owned AT&T SportsNet Rocky Mountain RSN. Before Altitude came into existence AT&T Rocky Mountain (then known as FSN Rocky Mountain) used to carry the Denver Nuggets and Colorado Avalanche for example.
        • However after a 3 month blackout AT&T was able to reach a long term agreement with Altitude restoring it to DirecTV's Choice and above. Altitude states the DirecTV deal has been offered to Comcast and Dish and they refused it as well. Meanwhile Altitude filed a lawsuit against Comcast claiming they want to reduce competition and monopolize coverage.
    • Comcast is in a dispute with Dish Network over NBC Sports Chicago which has been blacked out to Dish/Sling TV customers since October 2019. Dish is saying Comcast wants a "minimum number of subscribers" and just like with the other disputes Dish wants NBC Sports Chicago on a Sports Tier. Comcast naturally wants the channel on AT120+ and higher.
      • Originally NBC Sports Chicago's agreement with both Dish and AT&T expired at the same time however AT&T's platforms kept getting granted extensions. This was apparent because MySportsChicago.com didn't list DirecTV, U-Verse TV and AT&T TV Now as options for Dish/Sling customers to switch to and AT&T's TVPromise.com website for affected zip codes had warning messages that the channel could be dropped at any moment.
      • On December 20, 2019 Comcast added DirecTV, U-Verse TV and AT&T TV Now to MySportsChicago.com and in January 2020 AT&T removed the warnings of a possible blackout from TVPromise.com
    • Comcast (and Dish) have yet to reach an agreement with Marquee Sports Network (aka Cubs Network) despite their competitors AT&T (DirecTV, U-Verse TV and AT&T TV Now), Charter Spectrum, Mediacom, RCN and a lot of smaller cable ops reaching an agreement with Sinclair to carry the network. To me I wouldn't be surprised if Comcast doesn't carry the new network after they lost what Cubs games they had with NBC Sports Chicago to Marquee.
      • I honestly expect Sinclair will have to wait both Comcast and Dish out until their retransmission agreement for Sinclair's 180+ O&O local stations + Tennis Channel come up for renewal and then bundle the Fox Sports RSNs, YES Network and Marquee in with the local stations to get Comcast and Dish to carry any that are missing (like Marquee) and in Comcast's case ensure continued carriage of existing RSNs (like Fox Sports and YES). This is, after all, how Sinclair secured carriage for Marquee on AT&T and Spectrum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  17. BreadDawg

    BreadDawg Member

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    I re-signed with Dish back in July. I missed the Hopper greatly and left DTV for Dish. I had a bad feeling in my stomach when after being with Dish for only 2 weeks, we lost our RSN’s. Then, on the eve of the MLB playoffs we lost FS1 for almost 2 weeks. Well low and behold 2 weeks ago I lost my local Fox and still don’t have it back, yes the super bowl is on Fox. Don’t even get me started on the HBO situation. As an avid spots fan, I’m paying a lot of money to not see my local sports teams as well as not being able to watch the freaking Super Bowl. I’m really looking at paying the ETF.
     
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  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Any chance to watch Fox OTA?
     
  19. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    No disagreement Comcast plays both sides and lacks integrity on this and most issues.

     
  20. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    Resigned? You got something out of the deal....new equipment? Credits?

     

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