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Discussion in 'The OT' started by Nick, Aug 31, 2011.
Yes extreme. The kind of violence you described goes beyond bullying.
Fights happen all the time from bullying.
Really? I tend to differ.
My friends who teach in bigger inner cities say otherwise. I saw about 6 fights in my 8 weeks of classroom teacher observation about 10 years ago.
Bullying is not restricted to inner cities that are a breeding ground for violence. Your forgetting bullying comes in many forms and does not always lead to a physical altercation nor is it inclusive with children. Adults bully. As I posted earlier when I was in the 6th grade I and my classmates were bullied by our teacher. Employers bully. So do governments.
How many of those ended with the ambulance being called?
I think I have to disagree with police being involved in bully. If the bullying is going to the point of life threatening assaults or extremes then the Police should be called regardless of this new law.
I was always involved with schoolyard tussles in elementary school, when i got to middle school my parents said the fighting had to stop. That's when I found myself being bullied. Whenever I went to a teacher or security guard I was a "snitch" and then other kids who used to not even mess with me began to give me problems. They would try to take my lunch money, and when i refused my lunch would be "accidentaly" be spilled or i would be bumped into. What exactly are the police going to do in these situations?
After a Year and a half of going through this I stopped telling teachers (I never told my Parents but My home life wasn't grand) as I imagine alot of bullying victims do, and I decided to confront the issue. I met the bully at the playground and refused to fight back, got socked about 10 to 11 times before a teacher intervened and we both got suspended for 3 days.....
That was my reaction, I got beat up and sent home for 3 days because of a zero tolerance policy, so when I got back anytime they would try anything even to just try and rank me out in class I would begin throwing fists, I got suspended 2 more times and then it all stopped. I didn't have a tough man reputation but I never went looking for trouble, just anytime someone messed with me both of us got suspend and a fat lip or two.
If the option to call the police had been available what would they have done to prevent the matter is my question? Unless they were able to unequivocabally end the bullying their involvment would have made things worse.
I know it's not. The example I saw was at a suburban high school.
One resulted in an ambulance because the kid smashed his oppositions head into a wall a couple times.
Nothing except for permanent removal of you or the bullies would unequivocally end the bullying, but it could have ended it...we'll never know. Sometimes cops scare kids straight when parents and others can't get through to them.
To lighten things for a moment...
"Calvary" = Place where Jesus is believed to have been crucified.
"Cavalry" = People who might come to aid you in rescue.
Now back to the disagreements...
What happens if the bullying is done by a gang member? Maybe the bully is using intimidation (and not yet physical violence) to coerce someone? Or making threats to others if the target of the bullying doesn't comply in some way? That seems like a place for police intervention.
I don't understand the extremes here. Some are talking as if looking at someone wrong will result in the police being called. Nobody is remotely suggesting that any more that you should call the police if you don't like your neighbor's cologne!
Bullying takes lots of forms... and sometimes kids can't take up for themselves OR would rather not take up for themselves in a fight they didn't want... and they should be able to go to adults in the school. Failing that, if parents going to the school doesn't solve things either... then I think it is reasonable to get police involved just as you would for adults in a similar situation.
To take that option away from kids makes no sense. Some kids want to solve their own problems... some kids are capable... and parents should encourage and teach self-reliance... but not all problems can be handled alone AND some problems you shouldn't have to face alone.
That's all most of us are saying.
I guess my point is that the law citied earlier will only involve police in petty forms of bullying. The serious situations that do require police action would/should have the police involved without this law
Where's it say only petty forms will involve police?
Gotta agree with Sigma here.
Those that say Bullies are Cowards are usually fooling themselves. It certainly might be true in some situations, but it's not the norm. It's also far from the norm for the kid being picked on to rise up and beat the bully, as much as TV/Movies would like for you to believe it happens.
Growing up I saw at least a fight per week from 4th - 12th grade. Usually it was a bully just giving a beat down to some kid. Some were on school property and some were off. And while I never saw the need for an ambulance, many weren't pretty. Saw one kid take 7 rapid shots to the face after getting off the bus one day in 7th grade. Blood everywhere as he was lying on the gravel road.
Police involvement is needed in many cases.
:lol: Sorry if I sounded like that was quoted in the actual article I just meant that it's my opinion that the situations that are extreme and warrant Police interference would be getting the police involved previously before the law appeared, and now there will be the kids that are going "Leave me alone or I'll get the cops on you!" over any little thing. Or the bully and his friends spam submitting the victim as a bully via the hotline. Don't really seeing it changing anything at all, but maybe thats just me.
I agree with you overall, most bullies aren't cowards, and those that fight back don't win often. I would say Police involvement is needed in some cases, not many, and those cases would be getting police involvement with or without the "new" law.
These are valid ways that the system can be abused... but that can happen today and it apparently isn't happening. Kids could be calling police every day right now and making stuff up..
IF repetitive abuse of the reporting system happens, then I would expect that to be dealt with too... just like it would if you called up the police every day to report your neighbor for silly stuff.
You can't stop people from being stupid or abusing the system. As I noted way back in this thread... people were overloading 911 recently for the earthquake just to say "hi, I felt something"... and apparently the 911 system gets abused quite a lot by people who call to report non-emergencies... and yet, most would agree that we need the 911 system for actual emergencies even if some are abusing the system.
Are there not ways to get ahold of the police if your child is being threatened in a above and beyond way? I guess my point isn't that bully is okay, that police should never be called etc., its more that an emphasis on police enforcement to the student body will have a more negative impact than a positive one. really, I mean there are already ways to contact the police if your kid is in an extreme situation so i don't really get what this does...
It lets kids know they have an alternative if the adults at school and parents at home aren't taking care of things.
It isn't unlike a kid being abused at home and feeling like he can't talk to anyone because no one will believe him... so even though he could go to the police, he may not because he fears the police will believe his parents and his parents will know he called the police.
Kids could already be calling the police today if they are being bullied. What this new law really does is let the adults know that they will be accountable too IF the kids have to go to the police because they aren't taking care of the kids.
It seems perfectly reasonable to me. Make sure kids know they are as important and protected as adults.
I stand corrected on my spelling error.
And most of us others are not saying that the option shouldn't be there either. In fact, the "option" is there today. What we're expressing are concerns about what happens as more and more, the children are told that the best "first step" is to call the police.
However, in general we ARE debating this using the traditional views of the term "bullying" and not the new global definition used to cover all forms of criminal violence. We consider things such as gang related beatings, assaults on teachers and the like to be beyond the scope of "bullying" as it relates to creating and implimenting effective policies and practices within our homes and grade schools. We would tend to prefer that they be handled as stand alone criminal acts and prosecuted as such, as opposed to attempting to mitigate them through the same programs we hope will teach our grade school kids the in and outs of effective social skills.
But, since the balance of the debate seems to be just taking things to extreme examples in an attempt to justify beliefs, how about this one:
Let's say that during that gang related beat down, the poor victim, or perhaps one of the better informed gang members, happens to express the potential for a call to crime-stoppers to report this act of bullyism. Upon hearing this, the gang members, fearing for their own freedom, now decide that it would be best to kill the victim as opposed to just beating them and taking their lunch money. That is how it works some times in the "adult world" after all, I don't see any reason why we should expect anything different, all things being equal that is.
You gotta remember where this is taking place-New Jersey. Makes the governor look like he's really trying and he is...to be President. Any publicity will do.....:lol: