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Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by geaux tigers, Aug 2, 2010.
...and what happens when previous HD DVRs have an HDMI version prior to v1.3.....???
Is this based on any specific knowledge of their firmware structure? If so, I'd be interested in learning more. Obviously, they had to re-write it just to put 3d in there to start with. 3d is new. VSI is new. It apparently wasn't a difficult thing to do for other manufacturers.
Well, no, they should do it because they are interested in providing a solution that has their customer's best interests in mind. The other manufacturers are only relevant as proof that it can be accomplished, apparently easy enough that virtually all of them are able to work something out.
I wonder how many who voted actually have or are watching 3D, whether on DirecTV or other sources such as Bluray?
It is a common frustration among 3D owners that DirecTV unnecessarily blocks it's 3D signals on many setups when they do 3D just fine.
I almost bought a 3D projector until I learned DirecTV would block the 3D even though the PJ uses the same 3D format, except it is not on the "list".
Let the 3D channels through, If my setup cannot view them properly, I can call the TV manufacture.
Wait, my apologies, I knew the answer to this going in to this thread, but got sidetracked and forgot. DirecTV has to be doing an EDID white list. Here's one example of someone using an HDMI Detective to "spoof" the DVR into thinking it's connected to a TV on "their list". The HDMI Detective is a 1.3 device, and I'm not aware of any updates to it to make it handle VSI info. The TV he has can actually handle the formats that DirecTV outputs, but DirecTV seems to think it needs the 3d adapter like the older models do. So he had to go off and buy a $100 device to "trick" the DVR into thinking his TV could do something it already could do.
So this doesn't appear to have anything to do with VSI, or DirecTV following spec. They simply came up with this goofball idea to enable 3d based on their list of what they think can handle a 3d signal.
Except for MicroHDMI I don’t think there is any differences in hardware between 1.3 and 1.4. So, and IIUC, for the purposes of 3D TV, 1.3 is just as good as 1.4. Of course I’ve been wrong before.
If I understand correctly, meaning based on my own experience programming. Beyond that I have no specific knowledge about how DirecTV’s receivers are programmed. However, there are different versions for each receiver, as well as different manufacturers so it’s isn’t a matter of changing one firmware version but rather...what, half a dozen or more? :shrug:
I know that I've never found it an easy thing to restructure how a program flows and how it interacts with the user. In my experience it always involves much more then you think it might....like I said, I've been wrong before.
I'm pretty sure some of the added functionality of 1.4 requires new hardware, such as ethernet over HDMI. But I agree, for the most part, 3d works over 1.3, as evidenced by people using 3d sources (other than DirecTV of course) with 1.3 gear. The exception may be 3d Blu-ray... as opposed to the formats being used in broadcast, the frame-packed 3d 1080p format does appear a little different compared to a standard 1080p signal, as at least some AVRs seem to have difficulty extracting HD audio out of it. But side by side and top/bottom look just like a standard 2d signal (plus some extra header info), and seem to pass through 1.3 gear just fine.
If you mean a list of specific models, then no, I don't think that is what is being done. My previous TV was a 2009 Samsung model which could in fact not display DirecTV's 3d signal in 3d, but my HR24 (connected through my AVR) decided it was 3d capable, and sent it video, which I could view as two side by side frames. To make a mistake like that, it seems the HR24 must be looking at capabilities, not specific models.
From About.com:Home Theater:
I wouldn't call it a "mistake" rather the way it should be
Seems to me your experience would suggest the opposite. If your TV wasn't capable of converting a SBS signal into 3d, then that sounds like it's not the the capabilities that determined what was sent, but a mistake in their list. Just like Primetime19's 73838 model TV... that one IS capable of handling a SBS signal, but if you look at DirecTV's list, they say that it requires the adapter to view 3d. That is not the case... all the models that end in 8 are 2010 models, and those can handle SBS & T/B without the adapter. DirecTV was mistaken when they put that list together, and it just so happens that their DVRs are making the same mistake.
As I said before, for the purposes of 3D TV, 1.3 is as good as 1.4.
You only need 1.4 specific hardware for things like Ethernet over HDMI, HDMI Micro connector, or 4k formats.
3D need only be firmware not hardware. IMHO, and more to the topic, that means implementing the standards inlcuding EDID and VSI...I'm just sayin'
Ah, almost forgot .. I did hear that Mitsubishi will have a firmware update for their TV sets sometime in the next few months. This should help these sets out to some degree. I wonder if the AVR manufactures will have similar updates.
That makes plenty of sense.
Since we have been told the HR20's are not 3D compatible with DirecTV, and HDMI 1.3 came out about the same time (so too late to add it into those models), then all other HD DVRs starting with the HR21 featuring v1.3 or 1.3a could be used - and in fact have firmware updated to support 3D HD.
That takes HDMI v1.4a out of play as a "standard requirement"...since it just came earlier this year. As Doug indicated, it would seem VSI Alliance requirements are more in play than anything else, in terms of how DirecTV's 3D HD works at this time.
It's also good news for those folks with Mitz units to hear that their 3D HD displays might become more compatible with firmware updates.
That's a really good point.
I meant to include the HR2x hardware timeline but forgot. It really shows that 1.3 is 3D. You don't need anything to 1.4 to be able to do 3D.
Maybe for some of the really high end units, but receivers under say, $800-$1000 never get new firmware from what I've seen. Most of them don;t even seem to have a port to load new FW on them.
The 2010 Mitsubishis are supposed to get a firmware update to enable packed frame decoding (3d blu-ray). They can already do sbs and t/b, but DirecTV doesn't recognize that capability. The older models will still need the adapter. Regardless, that won't help the fact that DirecTV won't let the signal go through HDMI 1.3 processing AVRs, despite the fact that 1.3 is sufficient for 3d.
How about a search term such as Enable3D that is hidden in the DirecTv software code. You do a search for the term and this term disables the EDID restrictions which allows that DirecTv customer to watch 3D on his equipment without the EDID restrictions. The customer by enabling this secret search term realizes that DirecTv is not supporting this feature and agrees to not call customer service if they have issues.
I am willing to be part of the beta test group for this program as I bet other DBS.talk members are as well. Any opinion regarding this?
Honestly, I don't care what form the workaround is, as long as they provide some option for customers with legacy equipment.
If this is the compromise I must make then fine with me, though I don't think it should be a beta program, rather a final deliverable version, with the understanding that incompatibility will have to be addressed by the TV/equipment manufactures.