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Discussion in 'The OT' started by lee120, Apr 29, 2005.
Done. I think this is something nearly everyone will agree on.
I was #280,723
I think this is something nearly everyone will agree on.
Yeah, look how the nation went to hell once the Indian's allowed just anyone to cross over.
Seriously I think this is a waste of money to concentrate on the borders. That is just a band-aid on the symptom, not the source. And as the Berlin Wall proved, its impossible to completely secure any border, even if heavily watched.
Rather than concentrate on catching folks coming over, we should concentrate on punishing those who use illegal aliens here instead. If owners went to jail for hiring aliens, perhaps the problem would be greatly reduced. Aliens cross over because they see family who did so and find jobs. If those jobs are eliminated, then there would not be as much incentive to cross. However going after the people who hire illegals rarely happens, because far too often its the rich and powerful who hire these folks in mass.
Didnt I just see a special on 60 minutes the other night that said Georgia was being overrun by illegals. They even showed all of them standing around at intersections waiting for a contractor to drive by and offer a days work. They are here,, we know they are here and yet they are allowed to work . Why werent they all arrested and deported ? The main problem IMHO, is that no one really wants to solve the problem.
Certainly I agree that the border needs to be closed against those who are a threat to our country. I still believe that the action which would stop most illegal immigrants is to make them legal. Obviously they are being hired. Most of the jobs they fill are jobs most Americans don't want. Make them legal so we can collect taxes from them. We will put an end to the scum who rip off illegals and legal immigrants won't have to die in the desert. Once they are out of the mix anyone who is left is obviously not just someone looking for a job, but is transporting drugs, weapons, or is attempting to enter the country without a record of that fact. If border guards don't have to waste time on the job seekers who keep trying over and over, they can concentrate on those we REALLY want to stop.
I agree with the message. I don't agree with the technique. See snopes about online petitions.
A few months ago, I did circulate a petition regarding driver's licenses for illegal immigrants in the state of California. That one was different because I gave a URL where you could actually download the petition and mail it in. Unfortunately, the initiative failed to qualify.
was your petition ever on the news? there's was and is.
and they say "We will also deliver them to every member of the House and Senate".
and they say "deliver a million names and the Petition to the White House"
If I recall correctly, the Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, not unwelcome "guests" out.
Actually, we should do both. And, the punishment should be more than a slap on the wrist.
Yes, definitely. And the way to stop bank robbers from being criminals is to decriminalize bank robbing.
Richard, the people are here anyway. They are filling jobs that have to be done that American citizens don't want to do. The biggest problem is that they are undocumented. So lets document them.
However, as far as terrorism, I may be mistaken but it seems to me that all of the terrorists who took part in Sept. 11 entered the country legally. It would seem that watching the borders is not as important as watching for specific actions by legal visitors.
I am also not as concerned about terrorist materials entering the country illegally as the fact that bringing in a weapon through a legal port would most likely be safer for the terrorists. Our nation has spent a pitiful amount in tightening security at our seaports since 9-11. Personally, I think this whole issue is a red herring.
Bill Gates now wants to drop the cap on H-1 visas because he claims Microsoft cannot fill all of its open positions wiht Americans.
So are bank robbers.
C'mon Richard you know why we can't deport them, it would be cruel and insensitive!
Oops, I forgot.
I doubt very much that Bill Gates is hiring the typical person who enters the country as an illegal. The people he is looking for are obviously highly educated with specialized degrees. When such people as that start swimming the Rio Grande I may have to revise my position on the subject.
Does anyone have suggestions on how to secure 12,034 km of land borders, 19,924 km of coastline, plus who knows how many hundreds of international flights daily?
Some citizens groups in Arizona are attempting to do this on their own, for better or for worse.
I say station tens of thousands of National Guard troops on the border, give 'em M16's and Humvees with tripod mounted .50 caliber machine guns and lots of free beer. Tell them to shoot at anything that moves. Better yet, why not fly AC130 gunship patrols and shoot anything that moves.
The Mexican gov't is culpable for a lot of this. Rather than devloping jobs for it's citizens it passes out pamphlets on surviving the crossing and how to deal with the US authorities if you get caught. Vicente Fox is no friend of Americans. I really hated to see Bush schmoozing with him a few years back. :nono2:
Y'alls is gonna meet ur makr hose-ay
Mr. Gates doesn't know his rectum from a hole in the ground when he says that.
I was unemployed for about a year and a half.
I have nearly 30 years experience in my field - been programming computers, designing applications and databases since CARTER was President and I'm only 43.
While unemployed, I took out an education loan and spent $18,000 to attend a "masters program" for 3 months in NJ, commuting home on weekends (to NH) to train me in the latest technologies - all centered around Microsoft's ".NET" platform.
So there I was - experience in application design going back more years than I could put on a resume. Experience in earlier versions of VB with training that had me fluent in VB.NET. Over a decade's worth of experience on SQL-like databases and just brought up to speed on SQL itself (I had 15 years on a predecessor and inspiration to SQL called "Datatrieve")
So it comes time to market the new skills with all my old designing experience. Mind you, at the time I graduated from th program, I was unemployed for about 6 months.
It was another year before I finally found work.
Microsoft partnered with Accenture to make a consulting firm called "Avanade". Avanade, among other things, helps spread Microsoft's ".NET gospel" by advertising themselves as providing .NET solutions. I went to their recruiting night they had at the place I was trained - *this* was the company I wanted to work for after I saw what they had to offer. there would be sacrifices involved but I was willing to make them.
Days and weeks passed. After an initial phone call that I got, I kept getting put off. Then there was a hiring freeze, then more double talk, then the Boston office wasn't hiring. (This was all early 2004).
I know a guy in Oxford MA who *right now* will pack up and move at his expense anywhere in the country that MS might want him to go and he has YEARS of experience with SQL Server 2000. He was in the classes with me in NJ.
Bill Gates is either clueless or deliberately lying when it comes to this subject.
If he needs programmers, I know where to find them. Truth is, they want to work people like the video game industry and aren't willing to pay for experience. They want entry level nobodies who will work for peanuts.
Well, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, as my grandfather said.
Software quality seems to be a lost art. If I ever released software in the kind of condition that MS does, I would *never* have gotten a second job in this industry. When you hire people with no experience, you get what you pay for and the product suffers.
Not to mention your fruit and vegetables would cost a lot more. :nono2: