Sinking Ship

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by WebTraveler, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    My latest commitment on a retention special is up.

    DISH is loosing channels right and left, mostly sports, but HBO is gone.

    NO RSNS, NO NFL Network, No Redzone, and more.

    What is the long term strategy here? I am not signing another 12 or 24 month commitment. Comcast is actually cheaper now. Fubo TV, Hulu, Youtube all have much more for much less.

    DISH DVR is good, and streamers are lacking on DVRs, but dang - for $65-$70 a month with streamers you get much more than what DISH has for $125 or whatever it comes to. Even getting a good credit with DISH you still pay MORE and get less.

    Satellite TV is easier than streaming. But dang, DISH is not even trying to be competitive with channel selection or cost. I feel like I am being forced out. This ship is taking on water and we're sinking.
     
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  2. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    It's not just DISH - it's all companies of traditional Cable type programming. I think the Over-the-top companies using the Internet for distribution are gradually be pushed by the content producers to the same price point. We'll see over the next couple of years.
     
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  3. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    While that is certainly one scenario, the other is that the longer the restrictions because of coronavirus keep the content providers from producing new and interesting shows the consumer pressure to reduce their cost could result in something a bit differently.

    I mean why have a live streaming service these days when almost everything is reruns, inane game shows and non-reality shows. You can get those without ever looking at a live streaming service and save some money too!
     
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  4. jw_rally

    jw_rally Active Member

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    I am a 20 year DIRECTV customer. My DIRECTV commitment expired a few days ago as well as my $60 per month discount. As I posted a couple of months ago, I was seriously considering DISH as a replacement. I like a lot of the programming they have that DIRECTV doesn't offer and was thinking about switching.

    However, DIRECTV came through and renewed my $60 per month discount plus gave me NFL Sunday Ticket Max for free. No additional time commitment required.

    I have never had DISH, but it appears to me they have a lot of good things to offer. But, not having FSN Ohio for local sports, and not having the NFL Network + Redzone was too much of a loss for my tastes. Plus all of these disputes and losing channels (seemingly at a more rapid pace than other providers) made it difficult to switch. I wasn't comfortable with a 2 year commitment not knowing if the channels already lost are coming back, plus not knowing what additional channels will be lost in the next two years.

    I will be considering options in 12 months after my DIRECTV discounts expire and will keep an eye on DISH as an option. A lot of things can change in 12 months, especially these days.
     
  5. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    As the programmers raise their prices and satellite & cable subscriber bases drop, the thought of paying the programmers double, triple, the current rates is out of the question, as if satellite or cable has the wiggle room without increasing the rates a lot. There is no easy way to solve this. Like with Apollo, they want a huge increase and Dish cannot pay it. The programmers are slowly putting cable & satellite out of business. They are killing the golden goose, thinking streaming will save their bottom line. That remains to be seen.
     
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  6. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    I would agree, but then I look at what Sling offers - a DISH company and its still lacking in sports. Again, no RSNs, no NFL Network. To the point where Sling is no longer even trying to be competitive.

    DISH does have the best DVR ever in the Hopper. But it's offerings just suck.
     
  7. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    You're putting too much emphasis on sports programming. For some of us - it's a non-issue.
     
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  8. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    For most of us the national channels have more than enough sports. The RSNs are about the 10% that are true fans. Dish seems to have decided to not worry about them.
     
  9. icr2002

    icr2002 Mentor

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    I came to DISH because I dont give 2 flying u know whats about sports. IMHO all sports channels should be in separate channel packs like the premium movie channels. I dont watch them channels yet i am forced to subsidize them by DISH and the entertainment companys.
     
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  10. jw_rally

    jw_rally Active Member

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    That would be nice for sports fans too. That way sports fans wouldn't have to subsidize the channels that have about 4 shows they repeat over and over again, or "reality" shows all of the time. I would love to rid myself of those channels no matter the provider. Won't happen either way though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  11. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    You are right - for some of you - sure. Not everyone wants sports.

    But in order to run any operation you need eyeballs. Satellites are expensive. You have to find the right mix of customers, but have a lot of them. For example, I don't want all the fluff that goes with the sports. I am really at about 8 or 9 channels. The locals and sports channels. Occasionally a news channel, but I am not paying top dollar for some propaganda banter; once in awhile I just want the news. But I am forced to get a slate of BS channels just so I can get my 8 or 9. SO it does cut all ways. Fixed costs of satellites remain and must be spread across fewer customers.

    In the end, sports drives TV. And right now DISH is simply not renewing sports channels that come up for renewal. I just can't justify staying. I can save $40, $50, $60 and get the sports channels DISH no longer offers, if I leave, and got to anyone. Heck, Comcast is now very competitive with DISH on price. And DISH's new resistance to sports is also causing people to leave in droves from Sling.

    To be clear - DISH equipment is the BEST. No doubt about it. And to be clear - DISH works well in a rural environment where data lines are lacking. In urban areas there are just better options.

    I do have withdrawal coming....I just wish Ergen would wake up and regroup.
     
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  12. WebTraveler

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    Bottom line is sports drive subscriptions. Without all the sports customers that's fewer eyeballs to spread all the fixed costs over. In time your costs will have to go up to serve far fewer customers.
     
  13. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    It's fewer eyeballs, but is it THAT much fewer? As someone else said, the National sports channels (combined with what we can get on locals) is more than enough sports for some. The RSNs are more for the true fans - they do offer some local sports not available nationally (MLB, MLS, some college sports that are more regional than national). Dish has done the math and for them - RSN's at the prices they would have to charge are not worth it.
     
  14. WebTraveler

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    It's a lot fewer, yes. At one time DISH had almost 15M customers. Today it is about 11M across both DISH and Sling.

    Directv had 20M customers in 2014; today ATT has 18.4M across Directv, DirectvNow, ATT Now, ATT Uverse. A huge decrease across all the product lines.

    RSNs is a problem. Back in the day there was one channel per city, today there are competing RSNs and the games have shifted to Pac 12 Net. Big 10 Net, etc.

    DISH has dropped almost all RSNs and is poised to lose more customers as contracts come up.

     
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  15. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    For Sports fans maybe....But for the rest of us, Dish's lineup is pretty darn good. For general programming it beats both Charter or Direct here. The price is less too.
     
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  16. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I happen to like football and basketball. They aren't end-all be-all for me, but I like them... and the thing is, if you are anywhere from a sorta sports fan to an uberfan... there really is no substitute for live sports. I mean, you can record or pause it to skip commercials... but you need to still watch it pretty much that day so you aren't spoiled. Virtually all the other content, and I consume a lot of other content too, is available in other ways. You can buy series sets of most TV shows, most movies come out on home video... you have PPV and other streaming rental options for most new movies and many old movies... you have iTunes and then all the network/movie studio streaming services now too... and many TV networks have free online streaming for at least the most recent episodes of TV shows.

    Point being, there are lots of ways to consume most TV and movie programming beyond a monthly subscription to a major cable/satellite provider now... but sports is still kind of a one-trick pony... you need the live coverage channels to watch and enjoy. So I tend to agree... a lot of people who "cut the cord" were not sports fans mostly, and they discovered you can find your content elsewhere. We are probably going to slim down to a point where it is largely the viewers who want live sports driving the traditional subscriptions... I could easily see services ultimately slimming down to most sports and a handful of other entertainment... then you have to go to specific networks/studios to subscribe to their one-off streaming offerings.
     
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  17. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    I have always figured Dish, Direct, cable should offer what they do in other countries. With a basic package, a person gets one or two general sports channels. If they want more, they buy packages with what they want. Canadians have that. The cost is directed to the people that really want the service, much like the way the movie services are sold here. If you want Showtime, Starz, or HBO, you pay for it in a movie pack.Being not a sports fan, with AT250, I pay for a ton of sports channels I never watch. Some complain about too many shopping or religious channels, but those the programmer pays to have on Dish, we don't. Since sports channels cost so much, dropping them from AT250 would drop the bill by quite a lot. Someone said once that Dish pays Disney $10-$12 a month just for ESPN per subscriber. Add in the other sports channels in AT250, that puts quite an increase in the bills. But Disney I guess will not sell Disney or ABC without ESPN. So we a stuck, unless we cut the cord and go after Disney+.
     
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  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Peak for what is now AT&T|DIRECTV was 26.272 million in 2014 (DTV+UVERSE) and they have lost 30% of their net customers in six years. AT&T|DIRECTV has lost 20% of the customers they had a year ago.

    Peak for DISH was 14.057 million in 2013 and they have lost 20% of their net customers in seven years. DISH has lost less that 7% of the customers they had a year ago.

    AT&T|DIRECTV has sports and are bleeding customers at well over twice the rate of DISH in the past year. Apparently paying the ransom Sinclair and others wanted for their sports channels made a difference in retaining customers. :) (RSN fees increasing each year is part of the cost of retaining the channels.)

    They will lose you - but statistically they are doing better than DIRECTV at retaining subscribers. DISH has also done much better at "converting" customers to SlingTV. 20% of DISH's subscriber base are SlingTV subscribers. For those predicting the end of satellite it is good to see a healthy OTT subscriber base.
     
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  19. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Direct TV has always been more expensive than Dish. I looked at both back in 1999 when I went with Dish. I liked the price & lineup better at Dish. That still is true.
     
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  20. WebTraveler

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    Initially DISH did a good job at pushing customers to Sling. But DISH's programming issues mirror over at DISH. The same sports issues remain. I am looking strong and hard at Sling, and the AirTV devices for locals...but right now FUBO seems to be the best fit for me. Sling is lacking my RSN.
     

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