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Some People are just animals...

5K views 76 replies 29 participants last post by  Rich 
#1 ·
I just got my replacement receiver under the protection plan...The receivers is just BENT. Now I know what you guys talk about about when you speak on the condition of the refurbs...

I'll just stick with my funky receiver and a new 2 TB HD
 
#27 ·
Nick said:
This really is an amazing thread. :scratch: You people act as if this kind of bad corporate behavior is normal, even acceptable.

I was with Dish Network for 10 years and every IRD I ever got was brand new and worked perfectly right out of the box. Why you people put up with all of Directv's crap is beyond all rational understanding. :confused:

From what I've gathered on this board the past eight years, Directv is the BP of satellite tv.
Well, to be fair, yes I had issues with my HR20-700 when I first got in in Feb '07.

However, since then, the three HR2x's and an H24 have operated as advertised and as rock solid reliable as any other receiver/DVR I've had.

I'm just sayin', it's not as bad as some would have you believe. :grin:

Mike
 
#28 ·
Nick said:
This really is an amazing thread. :scratch: You people act as if this kind of bad corporate behavior is normal, even acceptable.

I was with Dish Network for 10 years and every IRD I ever got was brand new and worked perfectly right out of the box. Why you people put up with all of Directv's crap is beyond all rational understanding. :confused:

From what I've gathered on this board the past eight years, Directv is the BP of satellite tv.
I'm guessing that either:
1) Dish has an infinite supply of DVRs so they can send out new ones everytime;
2) Dish has an infinite amount of landfill to bury all the returned defects; or
3) You were lucky to get a new one each time.

CE (consumer electronics) is an industry that WILL use refurbs to replace defective products. This is now a fact of life. There is no way that they can send out a new unit every time one is returned.
The last DVR I got was an HR-21-200 that can not be told from new.
I have purchased several refurbed items. In every case, they have appeared and worked as new. Some (2 Kindles) have even come with the same warranty as brand new.
 
#30 ·
Nick said:
This really is an amazing thread. :scratch: You people act as if this kind of bad corporate behavior is normal, even acceptable.

I was with Dish Network for 10 years and every IRD I ever got was brand new and worked perfectly right out of the box. Why you people put up with all of Directv's crap is beyond all rational understanding. :confused:

From what I've gathered on this board the past eight years, Directv is the BP of satellite tv.
Well, Nick, I was with them for 8 years (the first 8 years they were in business) and my experience could not be more counter to your impression, an impression which while anecdotally true, I do not think is based in reality. If it were, DTV would not be growing by leaps and bounds compared to DISH and cable, which are pretty flat in this economy (people just would not stand for it). Your use of the word "was" implies that even you had had enough, and are no longer with them. :confused:, is probably an apt description of exactly what you are.

I agree that bad corporate behavior is normal; I disagree that it is necessarily acceptable. And I think there is a reason why cheap labor makes products that may not have perfect quality control (although QC is a local DTV issue more than an outsourced overseas issue). That's one of the ways to keep it cheap.

There is a very good chance that every item of clothing you wear, your shoes, the smart phone you are carrying, your iPad, your TV, your DVD player and DVR, are very likely all made in China. So in that sense, we all have voted that it is acceptable.

@Harsh: nice Foxconn reference. Those are also the folks who make many of the items I listed.
 
#31 ·
Nick said:
This really is an amazing thread. :scratch: You people act as if this kind of bad corporate behavior is normal, even acceptable.

I was with Dish Network for 10 years and every IRD I ever got was brand new and worked perfectly right out of the box. Why you people put up with all of Directv's crap is beyond all rational understanding. :confused:

From what I've gathered on this board the past eight years, Directv is the BP of satellite tv.
Nick, you've got a point. Hard to argue with your logic, but I've never had a Dish account and know virtually nothing about them except that they do not carry the Yes Network, which is a deal breaker for me. So, I can't really agree or disagree with your opinion. I do have a strong feeling that you are correct.

D* is certainly not a model for customer support or satisfaction. We put up with the 21 series for years when it's obvious that they could have put out a better DVR. That 24 series just didn't pop out of someone's mind. To put it mildly, we got hosed.

Rich
 
#33 ·
Dish absolutely uses refurbed receivers. Several neighbors have Dish and have complained of "damaged" replacement boxes. I agree with the concept of refurbishing the receivers, but believe the QC process leaves something to be desired...

It's my belief that both companies lose more money to return the "damaged" equipment and send another than it would take to have refurbished them correctly the first time. If nothing else, it's very poor PR to ship a receiver with a damaged exterior (regardless of whether the internal electronics function correctly.)
 
#34 ·
PokerJoker said:
Guess you haven't ever had a 622 replaced. Same problems as DirecTV - bad old crap, barely "refurbished", never tested, etc.
Actually, I have not had any problems with Dish gear or service going back to 2000 and the ancient 7200 days.
TomCat said:
...my experience could not be more counter to your impression, an impression which while anecdotally true, I do not think is based in reality.
My reality is the only one that matters to me.
Your use of the word "was" implies that even you had had enough, and are no longer with them is probably an apt description of exactly what you are.
Not even close. I had Dish until recently and was satisfied with the service, hardware and programming. I also have good local cable service, but, for personal and budgetary reasons, I had to make a choice. Cable won out for several reasons; first, living on the south Atlantic coast, local weather reports, emergency weather bulletins, and getting local tv broadcasts from two cities (Savannah, Jacksonville) are very important to me; second, being partially disabled from a stroke, I have to place a higher value on locally available tech support which, with my local cable franchise, has been very good; third, when I got cable broadband internet service so I could video Skype with my son in Afghanistan, cable tv became the obvious choice.

So, as you can see, my move to cable was for personal reasons and had nothing to do with Dish. I still have my dish tree in my yard and RG6 still runs to the house, so if I should ever decide to add sat tv back to the mix, I would definitely go back to Dish, and I will recommend Dish over Directv to others every time.

Finally, your assumption as to what you think I am is just that, an assumption, and, while I (we) value your contributions to this board, I couldn't care less about your opinion of me.
 
#35 ·
TomCat said:
Then where can the rest of us get one of those crystal balls you used to come to your conclusion?
I've never seen a reason to doubt any of Nick's posts. If he says the Dish DVRs are faster, I'll accept that as truth.

Or were you talking about my opinion of the 21 series HRs?

Rich
 
#36 ·
Nick said:
This really is an amazing thread. :scratch: You people act as if this kind of bad corporate behavior is normal, even acceptable.

I was with Dish Network for 10 years and every IRD I ever got was brand new and worked perfectly right out of the box. Why you people put up with all of Directv's crap is beyond all rational understanding. :confused:

From what I've gathered on this board the past eight years, Directv is the BP of satellite tv.
I think that is incredibly wrong....and rather than get into a tit for tat about all the grossly radical activities, court cases, and decision debacles of the leadership and operation of Dish network....perhaps we can simply agree to disagree on your statement. I won't even go into the misrepresentation of the capabilities of the VIP 922.

I've been a customer of DirecTV even longer than you have for Dish, and seen the very same results with them that you indicated with your provider. Neither provider has failed to make mistakes. Neither provider is void of flaws.

If Charlie Ergen is your view of ethical management...then bless you. We'll just have to see the world differently.
 
#37 ·
dsw2112 said:
Dish absolutely uses refurbed receivers. Several neighbors have Dish and have complained of "damaged" replacement boxes. I agree with the concept of refurbishing the receivers, but believe the QC process leaves something to be desired...

It's my belief that both companies lose more money to return the "damaged" equipment and send another than it would take to have refurbished them correctly the first time. If nothing else, it's very poor PR to ship a receiver with a damaged exterior (regardless of whether the internal electronics function correctly.)
You really send the damaged (or whatever) HR to a contractor who is probably paid a set annual fee to do whatever it is that they do.

Perhaps the lease fee pays for the refurbishing of that unit (or whatever they do) up the line.

You might have hit on the reason for the appearance of the 24s. Perhaps the money drain will stop with these receivers. I know the 20-700s are really stable platforms now. Hopefully, the 24s will be as dependable.

Rich
 
#38 ·
hdtvfan0001 said:
...I won't even go into the misrepresentation of the capabilities of the VIP 922.
I've never had a 922 so I cannot address the issue of misrepresentation. The most recent IRD I have is the 722 and it worked as represented.
...If Charlie Ergen is your view of ethical management...then bless you. We'll just have to see the world differently.
I never mentioned Charlie Ergen or Dish management and have no opinion that would be relevant to this discussion. Please do not misrepresent what I say.
 
#39 ·
Has anyone heard about the dependability of the HR23-700? I had recorded the premiere of Public Enemies on HBO and on playback, it froze for a good 5-10 seconds. After having my HR21-700 die, this is a bit disconcerting. It would be nice if it was the broadcast.
 
#41 ·
Ive had to experience other dvr's from the cable companies and the D* DVRs, even the slow ones are far better than anything the cable companies can offer. so no wonder D* didnt bother to upgrade. Now that they have some competition from the other guys bringing out new and faster stuff, D* is too.

And for the record, even on really hot days my cat loves to lounge on top of my receiver, so if you get one of my old dead receivers, I apologize in advance.
 
#42 ·
The case was bent severely. I just ended up putting it back in it's box.....

Generally with ~refurbs~ in my world, it's a small nick or 2, a scratch - just minimal cosmetic issues. Anything past that, I've never seen or would consider something so ~bent~ a OK refurb unit.

You would think DTV has some QC on refurbs but I guess it just get's subbed to a large warehouse that is close or central to a airport...similar to how alot of corporations have repair facilities....
 
#43 ·
chefwong said:
The case was bent severely. I just ended up putting it back in it's box.....

Generally with ~refurbs~ in my world, it's a small nick or 2, a scratch - just minimal cosmetic issues. Anything past that, I've never seen or would consider something so ~bent~ a OK refurb unit.

You would think DTV has some QC on refurbs but I guess it just get's subbed to a large warehouse that is close or central to a airport...similar to how alot of corporations have repair facilities....
That's just unacceptable.

Refurbs should still be usable and presentable...not damaged like you described. Shame on them for even sending it to you. I would take a photo and e-mail it to Ellen...and see if she feels it is an acceptable practice.
 
#45 ·
I was a Dish customer almost from the beginning, and for many years, before finally switching to DirecTV because I just couldn't put up with Dish's buggy receivers any longer. In those old DirecTIVO days before the HR21 series, it was painfully obvious right here on this site that the Dish forums were full of threads about misbehaving receivers while there was almost NONE of that in the DirecTV forums. I switched just in time to avoid the HR21s and watched the DirecTV forums explode with "receiver problems" threads that continue to this day. So I count myself very lucky.

I'm still using those essentially bug-free DirectTIVO SD units while dreading having to get new receivers for HDTV. And I'm a heavy user, too, asking the receivers to do lots of things; so it's not like they simply appear bug-free because the features don't get exercised.

The last straw in my switchover decision was watching the Dish 921 thread for *two years* waiting for the unit to become solid enough to be worthwhile. It never happened, but in the meantime it was loads of fun, as a longtime software developer, bashing the laughably incompetent programming team. The errors in their software development practices were painfully obvious as you watched bugs get fixed only to return in later releases and the utterly trivial things they were unable to code correctly, like detection of 3 overlapping recording requests on a two-tuner machine. It was obvious that Dish was never going to be capable of turning out reasonably bug-free systems without sweeping changes.

I can confirm that Dish sent refurbished receivers. In fact, I once had a Dish receiver upgrade for which they insisted on sending out a technician rather than simply sending me the receiver, and he couldn't get the new receiver to accept the subscription and begin displaying TV programs. He called Dish, who promptly offered to send me a refurb unit as a replacement for the brand-new unit that had never actually been used! I nixed that, so the tech gave up and went away. After fooling with the receiver myself for a few minutes, I got it to come up and it worked fine.

I understand that sending refurbs as replacements is a fact of life in this industry. I just wish that "refurb" meant more than "put it in a brand-new shipping box".

My take on this, though, is that they have a business model of shipping a replacement receiver as a cover for their software problems; that way, you're doing something immediate for a dissatisfied customer. As a consequence, they get back a whole host of returned receivers that are, in fact, perfectly functional from a hardware standpoint. Knowing this, if you're a harried refurb tech trying to turn around units, it is no doubt a great temptation to simply declare "no problem found" and put it on the rack to be sent to the next hapless customer. And that's probably *particularly* true of a unit you don't even wanna *touch*, like the cat-pee unit. :lol:

In computer land, things are a bit different, since it's much easier to acknowledge software problems and admit that there's probably nothing wrong with the actual hardware. My (admittedly limited) experience with refurb computer products is that "refurb" generally means "the tech couldn't fix it, the storage rack is full, and the recycle truck isn't coming until next week -- there's only one other way to get it out of here". :nono:
 
#46 ·
astrotrf said:
I was a Dish customer almost from the beginning, and for many years, before finally switching to DirecTV because I just couldn't put up with Dish's buggy receivers any longer. In those old DirecTIVO days before the HR21 series, it was painfully obvious right here on this site that the Dish forums were full of threads about misbehaving receivers while there was almost NONE of that in the DirecTV forums. I switched just in time to avoid the HR21s and watched the DirecTV forums explode with "receiver problems" threads that continue to this day. So I count myself very lucky.

I'm still using those essentially bug-free DirectTIVO SD units while dreading having to get new receivers for HDTV. And I'm a heavy user, too, asking the receivers to do lots of things; so it's not like they simply appear bug-free because the features don't get exercised.

The last straw in my switchover decision was watching the Dish 921 thread for *two years* waiting for the unit to become solid enough to be worthwhile. It never happened, but in the meantime it was loads of fun, as a longtime software developer, bashing the laughably incompetent programming team. The errors in their software development practices were painfully obvious as you watched bugs get fixed only to return in later releases and the utterly trivial things they were unable to code correctly, like detection of 3 overlapping recording requests on a two-tuner machine. It was obvious that Dish was never going to be capable of turning out reasonably bug-free systems without sweeping changes.

I can confirm that Dish sent refurbished receivers. In fact, I once had a Dish receiver upgrade for which they insisted on sending out a technician rather than simply sending me the receiver, and he couldn't get the new receiver to accept the subscription and begin displaying TV programs. He called Dish, who promptly offered to send me a refurb unit as a replacement for the brand-new unit that had never actually been used! I nixed that, so the tech gave up and went away. After fooling with the receiver myself for a few minutes, I got it to come up and it worked fine.

I understand that sending refurbs as replacements is a fact of life in this industry. I just wish that "refurb" meant more than "put it in a brand-new shipping box".

My take on this, though, is that they have a business model of shipping a replacement receiver as a cover for their software problems; that way, you're doing something immediate for a dissatisfied customer. As a consequence, they get back a whole host of returned receivers that are, in fact, perfectly functional from a hardware standpoint. Knowing this, if you're a harried refurb tech trying to turn around units, it is no doubt a great temptation to simply declare "no problem found" and put it on the rack to be sent to the next hapless customer. And that's probably *particularly* true of a unit you don't even wanna *touch*, like the cat-pee unit. :lol:

In computer land, things are a bit different, since it's much easier to acknowledge software problems and admit that there's probably nothing wrong with the actual hardware. My (admittedly limited) experience with refurb computer products is that "refurb" generally means "the tech couldn't fix it, the storage rack is full, and the recycle truck isn't coming until next week -- there's only one other way to get it out of here". :nono:
I've never seen any indication of refurbishing of any D* product. From the TiVos to the HRs. They just seem to turn them around and ship them out again. Perhaps they have a system where an HR gets returned three or four times and then gets thrown in a dumpster, but most of the replacements I've received haven't worked. Some have, but I think that they were returned for other reasons than "not working".

Rich
 
#47 ·
rich584 said:
I've never seen any indication of refurbishing of any D* product. From the TiVos to the HRs. They just seem to turn them around and ship them out again. Perhaps they have a system where an HR gets returned three or four times and then gets thrown in a dumpster, but most of the replacements I've received haven't worked. Some have, but I think that they were returned for other reasons than "not working".

Rich
I've only received one refurb from DirecTv and it was an old Tivo. It worked for years. I have also bought 3 refurb DVD recorders from Overstock and they have been great. It's just a crap shoot I guess, but I've been lucky.
 
#48 ·
"crap shoot" heh heh :sure:

Has it occurred to anyone other than yours truly that these "bent" boxes were, perhaps, damaged by angry, frustrated subscribers, and that redeploying those damaged IRDs just exacerbates the problem?

:beatdeadhorse:
 
#51 ·
hdtvfan0001 said:
I've used 2 refurbs over the years...both worked perfectly fine.
Except for one 21-200 and the 24-500 my other ten HRs are all replacements (I'm not gonna call them refurbished since I don't think refurbished HRs exist), but look at all the HRs it took to get ten that actually work.

Rich
 
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