SPEEDHD (Charlie let us down)

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by racermurray, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    There is obviously some other sticking point ... perhaps price?

    You may be ignorantly ignoring the appeal of speed outside of NASCAR. Forget the world - the world can't legally subscribe to Speed via DISH Network - focus on DISH Network customers and potential customers.

    How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR?
    How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR unique to SPEED?
    How many millions of potential subscribers watch non-NASCAR unique to speed?

    I believe you will find the first number to be the highest and MOST of the viewership of NASCAR to be the races ... on ESPN and on FOX (this week on ABC). NASCAR in the US is popular enough that broadcast networks cover it - often.

    Only the top non-NASCAR races get that kind of coverage. People just don't watch on the same level.
     
  2. Kman68

    Kman68 AllStar

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    ATSC is the HD standard regardless of location. The same sets they sell stateside will work overseas. It is a tough sell in European markets because the PAL system is not far from 720p HD video quality.

    As for the popularity of F1, you would not know it from living in the USA, but F1, Tour de France and World Cup Soccer have the highest sports viewers/attendance in the world. The order is the only thing that changes from year to year.

    Another unknown thing is that every year the world fitness community gets together to determine who the fittest athletes in the world are. F1 drivers usually win with bicycle racers coming in a close second. Most F1 drivers ride bicycles. Very few professional cyclists will ever drive a Formula One car.
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Irrelevant. DISH Network is selling satellite services to people in the US ... that is what matters here ... as stated in my previous message, forget the world.
     
  4. Redlinetire

    Redlinetire Icon

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    It depends on the time of the year, FOX/ESPN own the first half of the season, NBC (using TNT as well) has broadcast rights on the second half I believe.

    The point is a lot of people DO want SpeedHD to watch NASCAR pre-pre-pre-race shows, post-post race shows, Trucks, etc, etc. That's why Fox purchased the old SpeedVision network in the first place. And they're plan is definitely to make it 'the' NASCAR channel, if it isn't already. The numbers are high enough to justify it's carriage by Dish just on NASCAR numbers alone. FOX wouldn't have invested the money to make it HD for just a few thousand viewers. They must have marketing numbers to back up the business decision.
     
  5. ZBoomer

    ZBoomer Icon

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    PAL is 50Hz interlaced; with up to 768x576 resolution it's a bit higher resolution than NTSC, but I've seen PAL before, and it's nowhere near 1280x720 (@ 60Hz progressive) HD to my eyes, not even close.

    Flickers like hell for me, 50Hz interlaced sucks.
     
  6. slowmo

    slowmo Legend

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    I'm not ignorantly ignoring the appeal of NASCAR vs. non-NASCAR. In fact, I'm not comparing to NASCAR when I stated that Speed should already have sufficient viewer numbers in comparison to some OTHER niche HD channels that Dish carries. If anything, the recent addition of NASCAR-related programming to Speed only increases its mass-market appeal notwithstanding the views of many motorsports fans who miss the old Speedvision.

    Good lord, we have VS/GF in HD. Is that really any different? Yes, golf has a huge following but that following prioritizes broadcast network coverage not the obscure crap typically found on VS/GF.

    I've long given up on the old mantra of citing F1's global following. I'm just citing that Speed is no more niche than much of the junk filling up my HD guide right now on my 622.
     
  7. TR7Spyder

    TR7Spyder Cool Member

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    I can't stand NASCAR, but I am hoping that its (misguided) popularity should elevate Speed to HD status. But I guess not... I find this even more strange than the fact that so many actually watch NASCAR. :confused:
     
  8. Chandu

    Chandu Hall Of Fame

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    Nonsense (due to bad choice of words used).

    ATSC is not a display standard, it is a terrestrial transmission standard, hence need of ATSC tuners etc. For most of the world which follows DVB family of standards, DVB-T is the standard for terrestrial transmission.

    But most of that is completely irrelevant to what a given digital television set can or cannot display - which was originally James' question.

    This is pretty much true for HD. That is, all worldwide HD sets natively support 720p, 1080i and now 1080p as well. There may be some differences in the refresh frequency supported for each resolution, I haven't checked on the details.

    This statement quoted not necessarily true for SD. SD resolutions output by American tuners or American DVD players such as 480i and 480p cannot be natively displayed on sets sold in rest of the world. This is because they mostly support more superior quality of SD in 576i or 576p (also known as PAL). Now, there maybe video processors on the market which could possibly upconvert from 480i to 576i or 480p to 576p. But your statement was referring to "using a digital TV sold stateside overseas", i.e. the reverse use case. Considering tuners overseas would be spitting out 576i SD picture, I'm not 100% sure if American digital sets could intelligently handle it and downconvert to their native capability of 480i.

    Talking about F1 coverage in HD, all of you should check out the following thread from last season. In it there is a link to interview given by Bernie, in which he stated why worldwide HD telecast for F1 was not the topmost priority for him.

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90078
     
  9. Kman68

    Kman68 AllStar

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    There was post on the SPEED message boards last year addressing this very issue. On the weekend of an F1 GP, 235,000 viewers tuned in SPEED to watch the event. On that same weekend, some gentlemen were standing in a field with an eye on their balls while holding their sticks. 7 Million viewers tuned in to watch men watch their balls.

    Mark Twain said it best, "Golf is good walk spoiled."
     
  10. qsoundrich

    qsoundrich Cool Member

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    Nov 7, 2007
    F1 starts in a few hours and still NO SpeedHD. Why can't they get this deal done?
     
  11. DustoMan

    DustoMan Godfather

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    If you are only counting horizontal lines then I guess you can say that PAL is "close" to 720p. However, that would be discounting the number a vertical lines in the picture. Here's a graphic to help illustrate:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television#TV_resolution
     
  12. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    It's this kind of niche programming that clogs up the offerings of some of the mainstream channels. Bottom line is that this channel is simply not exciting, except to a small, but vocal group.
     
  13. JohnL

    JohnL Icon

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    qsoundrich,

    Yes, no Speed HD but F1 is not available to anyone in HD even those with SpeedHD.

    John
     
  14. ssmith10pn

    ssmith10pn Icon

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    Look where your from. That explains it all. ;)

    If you grew up with Talladega or Daytona in your back yard you would understand.
     
  15. JohnL

    JohnL Icon

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    WebTraveler,

    Okay, but what you may call Mainstream channels were at one time Niche channels, besides if you look at the actual viewer numbers for even "MainStream" cable channels, their actual viewer numbers are vastly less than even the lowest rated OTA Network Broadcasts (which are totally supported by Ad Revenue).

    Even Mainstream Cable Channels could NEVER EVER support their networks with Ad revenue by itself. With all that said Cable's penetration rate into the vast majority of US homes is because of its ability to deliver the varied niche programing that most Americans want. Just because SpeedHD is not valued Niche programing in your home does not mean its NOT niche programing that many others want. I'm sure you have interest in other niche channels that many others don't.

    In the end, US Cable channels offer a varied slate of niche programing that caters to most everybody interests, maybe not for every channel carried. Collectively, we all enjoy some niche programing over other offerings, but if cable didn't offer most subscribers some niche programing they enjoy then Cable wouldn't be in the majority of US homes.

    John
     
  16. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    John, I am not really sure what your point is, except perhaps you don't like the fact that I call SpeedHD a niche channel with a small, but vocal, audience.

    The fact remains that it is a niche channel, and by mainstream I mean USA HD, Nick HD for the kids, and so forth.
     
  17. longrider

    longrider Well-Known Member

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    I just stumbled on this thread as I dont normally check the Dish forums but to fill in the other motorcycle enthusiasts: Supercross is all HD since Live Nation is paying for it. European coverage is SD, I did find it interesting that from Qatar the 250s were pillarboxed 4:3 while the 800s were 16:9 SD. US coverage Daytona was obviously HD, Laguna Seca should be HD, but the rest of the coverage will be SD. Next year there is hopefully a lot more HD as long as Speed steps up. This info about US coverage is directly from the source, Chet Burks of Chet Burks Productions who produces all of Speeds US coverage.
     
  18. JohnL

    JohnL Icon

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    Webtraveler,

    My point is all Cable channels are NICHE, as their real viewer eyeball count is vastly less than Network Television. Since this is the case Subscriber fees are required to support their operation instead of 100 percent Ad Revenue.

    Any channel that can't support itself entirely from Ad Revenue means these channels are NOT attracting a wide enough "Mainstream audience" or enough eyeballs to pay to for their operation from Ad revenue alone. This means all CABLE channels are NICHE channels as they all cater to a specific audiences.

    John
     
  19. WebTraveler

    WebTraveler Icon

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    I guess I see your point to some extent, but cable channels were built long ago on a completely different model. To some extent, regular TV is now part of that same **new** model. In order to rebroadcast **free** channels, cable and satellite must execute agreements and pay for that right.

    However, look at the weekly ratings and # of viewers:

    http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||weekly,00.html

    Compare that with the cable TV viewership:

    http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||cable,00.html

    Note that while the TOP shows generate HUGE numbers, farther down that list is not that much off of cable. According to this USA, ESPN, NICK, and CNN are just as much mainstream as ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX. No way you can say that both USA and Speed are niche. Speed definately is.

    Of course, you can always put a spin on whatever. It's a completely different model.
     
  20. qsoundrich

    qsoundrich Cool Member

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    Nov 7, 2007
    Speed may be a niche product, but it's appeal is to generally a fairly affluent male demographic that advertisers really like.

    My understanding is that many of the F1 races are in 16x9 aspect ratio. That's almost as important to me as the higher lines of resolution.

    And anyone who watched the race today could not possibly call it boring.
     
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