States cracking down on Left Lane Slowpokes

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Herdfan, May 1, 2014.

  1. billsharpe

    billsharpe Hall Of Fame

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    With that criteria I suspect that 15% of the traffic will exceed the speed limit no matter what it's set at.
     
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  2. Drucifer

    Drucifer Well-Known Member

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    With today's tech, each lane should be able to have its own speed limit.
     
  3. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Using that logic... would you define other laws on people's behavior? We still have robberies despite them being illegal, so some portion of the population thinks it should be ok to steal... so maybe we need something like that movie "The Purge" where we have some times that it is ok to steal other people's stuff.

    I mean, if you have a law... and people don't obey it... then change the law to fit the behavior, is what you are suggesting... So when people steal, that's not wrong... it should become ok to steal since people are going to do it anyway... it's an unjust law to say "don't steal" because sometimes you just need to have other people's stuff...

    Exactly... it would be a moving target (like traffic) and some would keep making excuses for why it is ok for them to not obey that law.

    I don't even always agree with the speed limits in some cases... sometimes they are too low, other times I think they are too high... but if we have speed limits they should be there for a reason. I would be ok with having stretches of highway, if properly constructed, without a speed limit in rural areas... but that's not the law we have, and until it is, the speed limit should be the limit.
     
  4. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Don't leave us hanging! What's it like?

    Rich
     
  5. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Try driving on Cape Cod. The people that live there seem to think it's normal to drive as slowly as possible and there are no passing lanes. I was behind an elderly lady who was driving way below the speed limit on a main road. Followed her for a couple miles, utterly frustrated and she finally turned off onto another road. A kid in a flashy pickup truck came out of that side street and got in front of me. I felt a wave of relief and then he went just as slow as the lady did! The whole place is like that.

    Rich
     
  6. yosoyellobo

    yosoyellobo Icon

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    Is't that stephen King territory?
     
  7. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I think he lives in Maine.

    Rich
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    With that criteria you are DEFINING 15% of traffic as being over the speed limit.

    Yet even if one sets the speed limit at the 95th percentile there will still be people driving faster ... and wanting that left lane clear regardless of what speed the car occupying that lane is moving.
     
  9. yosoyellobo

    yosoyellobo Icon

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    Set the speed limit at the speed of light. People will still try to break it.
     
  10. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    But then, their headlights won't work.
     
  11. longrider

    longrider Well-Known Member

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    Warp 6, Scotty :)
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    :rotfl:

    :thats: !rolling
     
  13. Herdfan

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

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    I am not suggesting we change the law to fit people behavior. I am suggesting they be set in accordance with a non-arbitrary standard based on traffic science. Not what some politician thinks the limit should be.

    But times do change. We now have 4 states that have decided marijuana should be legal. This is solely based on a change in attitudes and behavior. So it does happen.
     
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  14. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I'm really of one consistent mind on this subject. I will support either scenario:

    1. Remove the speed limits, and you can enforce penalties to force slower drivers to the right in all situations.

    2. Keep speed limits, and enforce them whenever someone is exceeding that speed limit. Slower drivers should only be penalized if driving below that posted limit in the passing lane.


    Now, I don't really have a preference. IF they remove the speed limits, and I'm not driving as fast as others want to go, I would gladly get into the right lane for them to pass by me at light speed if they wish so that I do not impede them. But, if we have speed limits and I am driving at or above that speed limit I do not feel an urgency to allow that speed-of-light driver to change my driving just to suit him and his "need" to break the law.

    Pick one way or the other... petition (though not on DBSTalk thank you) for the law to reflect your interests... and I'll gladly adapt to the law. But wishy-washy laws that say don't break the speed limit except if someone behind you is breaking it even worse than you is insane to me.

    Can you imagine this in other walks of life?

    Don't hit your neighbor UNLESS someone behind you punches you in the back, and then you absolutely must hit your neighbor in the face OR be punished for not allowing the violence to continue... if you attempt to interfere with the violence, prevent it, or slow it down... then you will be punished while the guy behind you is allowed to go on his way and punch the next guy with impunity.
     
  15. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Can't agree. Drivers loitering in the left lane regardless of speed should move to the right. Speeders who pass on the right should be penalized doubly.
     
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  16. longrider

    longrider Well-Known Member

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    You are comparing things that come under different legal principles. The robbery, burglary, assault, etc are all Malum In Se, actions are prohibited because under the standards of any civilized society the action is just wrong. Actions like speeding, drug use, driving without a license, etc are Malum Prohibitum the action is wrong simply because some authority says so. These rules can be changed at the discretion of the authority involved.

    The 85% concept is strictly a traffic control theory and does not apply to anything else. Everybody has a speed they would drive at assuming no rules and little traffic. For some that would be 60, for others 90. if the limit is 75 many people who would prefer to go faster will obey the limit. Also many people who would prefer to go slower will speed up to match traffic. It has been shown that setting the limit at the 85th percentile results in the minimum amount of accidents. It is fast enough that most people will flow with traffic and not aggressively pass while it is still low enough that most people will be able to flow with traffic without scaring themselves or being unsafe.
     
  17. Jan 1, 2015 #437 of 578
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Except... if the speeder is capable of passing on the right, by definition that means the driver in the left lane isn't holding up the flow of traffic... right?

    As always, I never argue for driving below the speed limit in the left lane (except in certain conditions like weather or when you are forced to move left because of an accident in the right lane, etc.)... but if you're exceeding the speed limit in the left lane I can see no reasonable argument for legally penalizing such a driver. Maybe you wish they would drive faster... but they are already at or above the speed limit. IF the law penalizes such a driver then I argue the speed limit itself is meaningless and should be abolished. IF you abolish the speed limit, then I'm 100% fine with expecting people to yield to faster drivers and penalizing those who don't.
     
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  18. Jan 1, 2015 #438 of 578
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    To be fair, though, all laws are subject to being taken away by the authority involved... Laws get changed all the time, some are harder to change than others. We had legal slavery in this country for hundreds of years and even after a Constitution that supposedly guarantees certain "unalienable rights"... so truth be told, none of us have the "right" to do anything that the lawmakers/enforcers don't permit us to do OR that we can otherwise get away with...

    My example was intentionally silly, of course... but that doesn't mean other laws we take for granted couldn't be changed tomorrow.

    Along that lines... speed limits have been lowered in the past... the cycle keeps going around as to what the law will and will not allow with regard to traffic.
     
  19. Jan 1, 2015 #439 of 578
    Herdfan

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

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    Under the same scenario, forgetting about the law, I can see no reason for the driver in the fast lane driving over the speed limit to not pull to the right as dictated by traffic etiquette. Unless of course they just want to be a dick.
     
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  20. Jan 1, 2015 #440 of 578
    scooper

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    I disagree with the prohibiting passing on the right. Obviously you have never been in a situation where the big truck is trying to get up to speed in the LEFT lane, or there is the left lane squatter. It CAN be done safely - the person getting passed (in either lane) should maintain speed or slow down so the passer can safely get around them.
     

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