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Street Eyes DISH Locals Plan

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Steve Mehs, Feb 6, 2003.

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  1. Feb 6, 2003 #1 of 21
    Steve Mehs

    Steve Mehs Hall Of Fame

    Mar 21, 2002
    EchoStar's effort to add new cities to DISH Network's local TV slate - and how the work is a little different from small dish competitor DirecTV - has caught the attention of Wall Street.

    Today, EchoStar rolls out local TV channels for its viewers in the Chico/Redding, Calif., market. DirecTV launched a local TV channel package for its customers in the Richmond, Va., area on Jan. 15, and took the wraps off its plans to offer local TV channels in an additional 50 markets by the end of 2003.

    In its new local TV efforts, DirecTV has focused on larger markets: Richmond is listed as No. 59 in Neilsen's list of TV DMAs. EchoStar, however, has kept to smaller markets: Chico is No. 132 on the Nielsen DMA list; Cedar Rapids, No. 88; Omaha, No. 78; and Reno, No. 114.

    Said Lehman Brothers satellite analyst William Kidd, "now that EchoStar and DirecTV have overlapping coverage on most of the top 50 markets, they are beginning to diverge in their choice of new local markets to target."

    Kidd said he believes EchoStar "is intentionally choosing markets which may not necessarily be the 51st, 52nd or 53rd largest market" in order to maintain a competitive advantage over DirecTV in those specific cities.

    Some have also suggested that EchoStar is targeting smaller cities with locals in order to take advantage of cable operators lacking digital TV or other services. However, others said EchoStar's smaller markets may fall under spot beams that also are delivering locals for nearby larger markets.

    With the addition of Chico/Redding, DISH Network has local TV channel packages available in 57 markets.

    From SkyReport (Used with Permission)
  2. Feb 6, 2003 #2 of 21

    jeffwtux Icon

    Apr 27, 2002
    Or maybe the smaller market stations are easier to get agreements with, unlike New Orleans.
  3. Feb 6, 2003 #3 of 21

    Anybody Guest

    Didn't I hear Charlie say "NO NEW LOCALS WITHOUT THE MERGER" Must have been more Dish BS!
  4. Feb 6, 2003 #4 of 21
    Scott Greczkowski

    Scott Greczkowski Banned User

    Mar 21, 2002
    Still no Hartford.

    Come on Charlie, 1 Market covers the ENTIRE State. There are more then enough spot beams hitting the state to make it possible.

    I know they are trying to hit areas DirecTV has not (DirecTV has Hartford) but I would think a market like this would be a no brainer.
  5. Feb 6, 2003 #5 of 21
    Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Guest

    IMHO, I think that certain smaller markets are being offered for two, not necessarily different reasons:

    1) There is extra space on a spot beam to put smaller markets, and,
    2) Many of these smaller markets put Dish Network in direct competition to NRTC/Pegasus.

    To me, it is a no-brainer.

    However, wait until we find out whether or not the FCC is goaded into some kind of penalty for Dish Network's two-dish locals plan.
  6. Feb 6, 2003 #6 of 21

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jul 19, 2002
    Dish also loves small markets because smaller markets are far less likely to have "other" stations. They can put a small market up with CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX and that is it. The small market other stations are usually class-A and won't get must carry.
  7. Feb 6, 2003 #7 of 21

    jquaglino Cool Member

    Sep 18, 2002
    I would love to know the reason why Dish will not add Hartford or New Orleans. I cannot seem to get an answer out of them on New Orleans. It would be nice to know the particular station(s) that they are having problems with.
  8. Feb 6, 2003 #8 of 21

    DarrellP Hall Of Fame

    Apr 24, 2002
    Portland is on a spotbeam and last night Kingpin totally sucked PQ-wise. the blacks were glowing purple. I received an email a few weeks ago where I was told that Dish is thinking of adding Yakima to our spots and they are like DMA 143 or so. I know they have at least ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS & FOX.

    So I guess we just have to live with the fact that our locals PQ will continue to degrade as they cram more and more of the small markets onto the system.
  9. Feb 6, 2003 #9 of 21

    Lyle_JP Icon

    Apr 22, 2002
    Dish is also purposely targeting NRTC areas where DirecTV just isn't competitive.
  10. JayeDVXIII

    JayeDVXIII AllStar

    Jan 30, 2003
    I seriously don't understand the point of carrying local channels; especially if you have to pay extra for them. I just have a clip-on antenna, and suprisingly enough, it works well..even here in Oregon where no terrestrial signal--even cell phones is good quality.

    Is there not a way to just carry networks like ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, UPN and WB without a local "twist" to them? Why is this illegal?

    I guess I'm just concerned that if Dish starts carrying local channels in every podunk town across the country, then there'll be no more bandwidth left on 110 and 119.

    I think they should take 61.5 and dedicate it SOLELY to east coast local programming if they simply must have these local channels and do the same with 148 but make it all for west coast people. The midwest and plains states can be evenly divided up amongst the two.

    Also, take all the international stuff taht is taking up room on 61.5 and 148 and move it all to 110 and 119 (using the space freed up by removing the locals).

    Maybe some of you donm't like that but personally I dont see the point of local channels anymore--the networks should have cable feeds with "station" breaks for local news or local commercials.

    I'm sure this is all pipe-dreams but I thought i'd let you all know what i think
  11. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Guest

    Well, let's just get an understanding how you want this to work.

    Let's say there is an national version of East ABC. So, in prime-time, everyone can watch this version of ABC. That would be one feed. However, at 11 pm Eastern/10 pm Central, we'd flip to local programming. Generally, on the big 3 networks (ABC, NBC, CBS), that would be local news.

    Using DirecTV as an example, we'd go from one feed of ABC until 11pm eastern, and then break for local news, all at the same time:

    New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, DC, Atlanta, Detroit, Houston, Tampa, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Miami, Orlando, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Baltimore, Hartford, Indianapolis, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Nashville, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Columbus, Kansas City, Greenville, San Antonio, Grand Rapids, West Palm Beach, Birmingham, Norfolk, New Orleans, Memphis, Buffalo, Oklahoma City, Greensboro, Providence, Jacksonville, Austin, Richmond, and Knoxville.

    That is 42 markets (not to mention the stations in each market) where at 11 pm E/10 pm C you'd then have to break for local news. Going from 1 version of ABC for primetime to 42 versions to show local news and local commercials is more a waste of space than the way locals are currently carried.
    The locals are being carried on spot beam satellites. The fact that recently Cedar Rapids and Chico/Redding have been added to the Dish Network lineup have no net effect on wasting transponder space.

    These are being placed at the 10 transponders at 110 and 119 that are being used for spot beams. There isn't any national transponders being used for this. The net result is that there is no effect on bandwidth at 110 or 119.
  12. JayeDVXIII

    JayeDVXIII AllStar

    Jan 30, 2003
    I apologize, I didn't realize that "spot-beams" were on transponders that didn't affect the national transponder bandwidth. Learn something new every day.

    I know this has porobably been asked, but I'm somewhat of a newbie. Does anyone know exactly WHY the PQ on locals (no matter what city I seem to live in) is so much noticeably different than that of the national pay -stations?

    And also, is the point of "spot-beaming" to prevent people from say, Dallas, from getting local channels from Maine or something?
  13. JohnL

    JohnL Icon

    Apr 1, 2002
    PQ on the Locals from Spot Beams is not all that great because generally Dish is carrying about 11-12 channels per spot Beam transponder, far to many to get even good Picture Quality.

    Secondly, Because only a rare few subcribers in the US qualify under the new SVHIA (Satellite Viewers Home Improvement Act) for Distant cities. Dish and DirecTV now use mostly Spot Beams to carry almost all of their Local Cities. The reason is the hard and fast rules on whom qualifies and it is a very SMALL Subset of DBS subscribers nationwide.

    On Dish the only Cities available to Distant Qualifiers are; NYC, Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago, Denver and LA. On DirecTV the only Distant Cities offered to Distant Qualifiers are NYC and LA.

  14. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Guest

    JohnL's point is correct. Very few people actually qualify for distant locals.

    The reason for spot-beaming is to allow maximum used of resources.

    For example, prior to December 27, 2001, DirecTV used nationwide beams for 31 markets, for a grand total of approximately 130 channels. That means about 10 transponders at the 101 slot covered the entire US with locals only a fraction of the populace could see.

    After December 27, 2001, once DirecTV's spotbeam satellite (DirecTV 4-S) was operational, there were 41 markets, over 300 local channels, yet only 6 transponders were used.

    Ten markets from the satellites at 119 were moved to 101. Which meant that another ten markets were available to sell to people using existing equipment, i.e., they didn't need to upgrade those subscribers any more.

    Talk about more efficiency on current resources!
  15. shilton

    shilton Godfather

    Nov 20, 2002
    50 more markets in 2003!!! Is there an article anywhere that says what these 50 will be and when???
  16. Steve Mehs

    Steve Mehs Hall Of Fame

    Mar 21, 2002
    I used to say the samething. You can look up some of my past posts always complaining about locals, but ever since Nov 21st I kinda shut up :) Yes, I can get the samething from my antenna for free, but there are two main reasons why I got locals. 1) this is the big one, the ability to PVR off local channels and the the guide information for them 2) We have the superstations and locals were only an additional $3, so for and extra $36/year for the convience to record and the ability to have PCM audio (PCM sounds a little better on my system then reqular analog) it was well worth it. Plus now, in the spring, I can reaim my outdoor antenna to get more Canadain stations and not have to worry about the loss of Buffalo channels.

    Shilton, in one of the SkyReport articles I posted from a few weeks ago, in the DirecTV Forum, there is D*s plan and it gives a list of a few of the markets that will be added.
  17. Jacob S

    Jacob S Hall Of Fame

    Apr 14, 2002
    If DirecTv adds all of those markets then they will get the customers before Dish does therefore being at an advantage. Dish could just wait to see what markets they choose to add then add the ones they choose not to add therefore a market would be more likely to be added. In the mean time Dish has to add some city. If a city is not worth keeping up vs. adding a different one then they could just have the subscriber go to DirecTv seeing as they could have that market to try to get more subs that way, and have a chance for the sub to stay on Dish anyways, that could be a risk that they take.
  18. shilton

    shilton Godfather

    Nov 20, 2002
    So D* is adding 50 more markets in 2003! I wonder what Charlie's next move will be? He has said they could only carry like 65 markets or so prior to the merger being shot down and his own people send out emails to those of us who ask about locals saying they can easily serve at least 100 markets. I would think they need to move fast to close in on D* before they dethrone them as the locals leader. We all know that they must at least have an idea where they want to go for locals too, can't understand what all the hush...hush is about. Why doesn't Charlie just spill the beans as to what cities he plans to serve this year?

    If any E* employees are reading this...how bout sharing the secrets (off the record of course!!!). What cities is Echostar eyeing up for this year??? Your answers could make the difference between someone hanging on or someone looking to D*
  19. Jacob S

    Jacob S Hall Of Fame

    Apr 14, 2002
    Because they do not know what cities they will be serving and do not want to promise to do certain cities that may end up not going up.
  20. mjschuyler

    mjschuyler Mentor/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Nov 2, 2002
    Scott Greczkowski, I also live in CT. I tried an antenna but reception is very weak. I had basic cable but the reason I went to E* in 1996 was because of poor service. I have an RV so I have a waiver for East & West Nets. I miss local news and since I have a 501, 508, Dishplayer and 721 I hate to watch "live" tv.

    My question is since D* has locals and E* does not has E* decided to let D* have CT? I used to show friends my E* and sold them on satellite but now I don't bother. Wouldn't locals make CT locals on E* a "no brainer"? Who do I call at E*? Thanks Murray
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