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Study: Jesus Died From Blood Clot

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Mark Holtz, Jun 13, 2005.

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  1. Mark Holtz

    Mark Holtz Day Sleeper DBSTalk Club

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    From Discovery Channel:

    Study: Jesus Died From Blood Clot

    A blood clot killed Jesus three to six hours after he was nailed to the cross, according to an Israeli researcher.

    Challenging the popular belief that Jesus died as a result of blood loss, the study pointed to pulmonary embolism, a fatal disorder now associated with long-haul flights, as Jesus' cause of death.

    A blood clot, which usually occurs in the deep leg veins and then travels to the lungs, is often the result of being in a cramped position for long periods. It can also stem from multiple trauma and dehydration.

    FULL ARTICLE HERE

    Either way you look at it, either blood loss or a blood clot, it's a extremely painful way to die.
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    Perhaps, but what does it matter what the actual physical cause of the death of Jesus was? He died, and on the third day, He rose again. That's all that matters
     
  3. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

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    The best sources I have seen have long held that blood loss was not likely to have been the cause of Jesus' death. The nails themselves close the wounds in crucifixion. The blood clot would go along with the most likely cause of death, that of congestive heart failure. The weight of the body hanging on the arms makes it impossible for deep enough breaths to be taken to clear fluid from the lungs. This is why when the spear was thrust into his side, water came out.
     
  4. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    Exactly! The grave could not hold him.

    There was a book a few years back that argued much the same as this current article - citing medical interpretation of the blood and water which flowed from His side when pierced by the Roman spear, ... etc.

    Bottom line, Jesus gave up his life (it wasn't taken from Him) for mankind, was buried and rose the third day to give us all hope. In a world that only knows take, He gave the ultimate gift.
     
  5. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Heck, if he had been born and died in the last century, we might all be wearing jewelery of hangmen's ropes or little electric chairs around our necks.
     
  6. n8dagr8

    n8dagr8 Resident Rounder DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I was under the impression that one sufficated when crucified. That is why they broke the legs of people to speed up the process - you couldn't push up, therefore you couldn't get air in your lungs. Most people died from exposure, dehydration, or suffication not blood loss.

    The "water" that came from Jesus' side I always understood to be serum. You probably have heard of lividity (livor mortis) - thanks CSI/L&O/...

    interesting article none-the-less
     
  7. jonstad

    jonstad Hall Of Fame

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    :bang

    Just another of the many places where you guys lose(not loose:)) me!:hair:

    The whole enterprise was engineered and orchestrated by God, right? Otherwise what was the Thursday midnight chat with the Father all about?

    So now, in what is claimed to be the most UNnatural death in history(ie, it resulted in renewed life a couple days later), you're looking for "natural causes". Like proving Jesus' death from natural causes somehow validates the supernatural elements of the story.:rotfl:

    What is it with you people???:shrug:

    But OK, natural causes!

    Christ supposedly died on the cross after about three hours. That's purportedly pretty quick by crucifixion standards. It was a favorite of the Romans and others precisely because it was so excruciatingly slow and painful a way to die, designed to last closer to three days, not three hours. This was viewed as its deterrent value. Not only would you die, you'd die slowly and in agony over at least a day or two, preferably for the state, longer.:(

    There are several possibilities for Christ's relatively quick demise on the cross. First, maybe he was a pretty poor physical specimen. This doesn't jive with the images we see of a tall, svelte Jesus with flowing locks and rosy complexion. But that's all fantasy anyway. Maybe the reason there are no images of the real Jesus is because He wasn't all that much to look at. And of course, supposedly He'd been roughed up a little the night before. Maybe in such a state He caught a little cold or pneumonia in lock-up? A possibility. At mid-thirties He was probably approaching average life expectancy for the time, but would God, or the Son of God have chosen such a frail vehicle? Even if it was known it would only have to last so long? Seems rather dubious.

    Second, we're talking supernatural here, AND Father and Son. Could God have shown pity on His Son and pulled the plug early to prevent further suffering? My understanding(correct me if I'm wrong) is the sins of the world were not heaped on 'til AFTER He died. So why make Him suffer needlessly beforehand? And Jesus had the power too, right? Maybe He checked Himself out early? I would!

    Lastly, and IMHO likely, He was drugged or poisoned to give the appearance of death. I'd like to see the CSI analysis of the concoction in that sponge they shoved in His face shortly before His eyes rolled over for the last time. Jesus and His posse were known far and wide for the spectacular "miracles" that happened at His appearances. Today, many if not most of us would recognize similar feats as magic, slight of hand, legerdemain. For such a troupe(and they were not unique in their day) it would not be unusual for some members to be at least a little familiar with "the black arts". And this knowledge would not be limited to seeming to make water into wine or pulling fish endlessly out of a basket. It would probably include rudimentary knowledge of drugs and potions for various purposes.

    Of course all of you will deny the possibility because after all, Jesus' magic was real, right?:rolleyes: That is, as opposed to all other magic which is obviously fake, right? But, just something I toss out there.;) just to provoke a little thought.


    Finally, this is all elementary, isn't it. You're looking for the cause of death for someone for which there is no independent verification ever lived in the first place.:D Talk about "cold case"!
     
  8. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    Your partly right. Roman crucifiction was a torturous death which usually took days - with the person eventually dieing of suffication. Because of the Jewish holiday (passover) the Romans would playcate the Jews by not leaving them hanging on a tree. In cases like that, they would take large hammers and smash the criminals legs, so they could not support themselves. This would hasten death, but I guess they felt the added pain compensated for the "shorter sentence". Of course Jesus died before the soldiers carried out the breaking of the legs.
     
  9. pjmrt

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    Sorry you feel that way. There is plenty of independent verification that He did indeed live, was crucified, and raised again. One can find Mohammad's bones if one so chooses. You cannot find Jesus's remains because He is alive.
     
  10. Bogy

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    Suffocation=congestive heart failure.
     
  11. KingLoop

    KingLoop Custom User Title DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I think that all of these semantics tend to detract from what should be the actual focus here... Jesus died as the last sacrifice, that would wash away the sins of the world and put an end to all other sacrifices. The Lamb as he was called. How the Lamb dies is not as important as the Lamb. The sacrifice is what is important. While I am not trying to say "Don't think." I would say, "Don't over think." Or, "Don't let your thinking get in the way of the true message."
     
  12. Fen

    Fen New Member

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    You have to remember Jesus was literally beaten to a pulp - He was barely recognizable. Add into that the cuts or gashs made by both the crown of thorns and the lash (which some say had either bone fragments or shells or other sharp objects) and He was severly traumatized by the time He was nailed to the cross.

    It should also be noted that prophecy said that His bones would not be broken at His death. Very rare given the mode of His execution and the timing (Passover).

    Makes for a good story, but you forget the part about the spear. If a soldier was to allow someone to escape execution, he'd pay with his own life. The soldier saw Jesus was dead, but he wanted to be sure - and so he thrust his spear into Jesus's side. If He wasn't dead at that moment, He was going to be soon.

    And I agree, whether it was through suffocation, heart failure, or whatever, it doesn't really matter. What matters is He died on the cross, as told in prophecy, in order to create a new covenant with man and allow us a chance at redemption.
     
  13. lazaruspup

    lazaruspup Godfather

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    Actually when the stages of death begin to set in, the blood sinks with gravity... if one is lying face down when they die, the blood will go to the anterior portion of the body and the "serum" or water will stay at the top. The blood coagulates into a nasty goop that only an embalmer gets to see later. The watery fluid which poured from the side of Christ on the cross was likely due to not only congestion but the settling of his blood into his legs and lower abdomen. Fluid would have built up into his thorax and chest given this scenario, of course this is assuming that there was time for LM to set in.
     
  14. Tusk

    Tusk Back in the Game DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Luke 23:44-46 "It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

    Physical explanations are a waste of time. They don't matter one bit.
     
  15. Mark Holtz

    Mark Holtz Day Sleeper DBSTalk Club

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    I am not trying to deny the symbolism of that act. In the Easter celebrations, I believe that the cruelity of that act tends to get glossed over when, in fact, it would be considered a very barbaric and cruel act. It gives me shivers just thinking about it.

    Our resident chaplin will probably correct me on a detail or two, but aren't there events in the bible which, for centuries, was called by critics to be fairy tales. Yet, in recent times, archeologists have found evidence that make it possible for those events to occur.
     
  16. jonstad

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    We've been over this before. Except for an exremely brief, but glowing, reference of dubious authenticity to Jesus and His followers in a voluminous, detailed history of the region(Josephus), there is zero, zip, nada evidence to show such a person ever existed, let alone "was crucified, and raised again".

    :lol::rotfl:

    I love you guys!:D Graphic illustration of how NOT to think critically, the antithesis of deductive reasoning.

    Your premise is, the lack of physical evidence(His "bones") is proof of His physical existence, not only that, but He is STILL ALIVE!:scratchin By this logic, the vast majority of humans who have existed since the dawn of time are STILL ALIVE! But sticking to the stuff you believe in, that means Adam & Eve, Noah, Jonah, Moses, most of the patriarchs and prophets of the OT, as well as a goodly number of characters from the NT are alive and kickin' too.

    And let me guess. The fact that we can find the bones of Mohammed is an indication in fact he DIDN'T exist.:grin:
     
  17. jonstad

    jonstad Hall Of Fame

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    Ah, another conundrum. Ya suppose SOMEONE besides the apostles would have noticed the "sun stopped shining" for three hours on a Friday afternoon? Was it a normal occurance happening every Friday such that no one bothered to take note?:nono: Wasn't there supposed to be earthquakes, rocks breaking assunder and other such happy stuff too? Nobody but the apostles noticed that either.

    Or maybe it was some sort of Star Trek time warp where everyone BUT the apostles was frozen in stride for three hours and therefore couldn't witness these miraculous happenings the apostles chronicled?:sure:
     
  18. jonstad

    jonstad Hall Of Fame

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    It depends on who the archeologists are, who is doing the interpreting and how you define "possible". There are certainly people, places and events described in the Bible that coincide with actual historical people, places and events. But for that matter, the same could be said for Gone With The Wind and most Tom Clancy novels. Nobody claims there were an actual Rhet or Scarlett or Tara. There was however an actual General Lee, Sherman, Atlanta and a Civil War.

    Likewise, very few would claim actual proof of the "hook" of the Bible, the various and sundry miracles. Some of the places and a few of the characters associated with these Biblical events ARE actual historical people and places. This is not at all surprising. But neither is it verification for people and events which are not described or verified anywhere else except the Bible, particularly the plethora of "miracles".

    Bottom line, there is about as much historical and archeological evidence for people, places and events in the Bible as there is for people, places and events in Gone With The Wind, probably less. So is you believe Rhett Butler was a real person who had a love affair with Scarlett O'Hara during the siege of Atlanta, then you should have no problem believing in Adam & Eve, Moses, Noah, or any of the other undocumented stories of the Bible.
     
  19. Spruceman

    Spruceman Legend

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    If Jesus' dying was the last sacrifice, who was offering the sacrifice? Sacrifices are usually to a higher authority. If it were God sacrificing his son Jesus, then who was God sacrificing Jesus unto? If the sacrifice was made to save us all from Satan, then one might suspect that God was recognizing Satan as a higher authority in making such a sacrifice. If I were God, with absolute power, I would merely destroy Satan rather than let my son undergo a torturous death. And I thought my father was a real S-O-B!

    Does the sacrifice of Jesus provide an opportunity to redeem only the people of Earth, or does it extend to all inhabited planets? Or is there a Jesus for each planet with intelligent life? What about souls in parallel universes? Since the mass/energy of the soul is not detectable within the physics of the 3-dimentional + time universe, the soul must reside solely in one or more of those additional 6 or 7 sub-Planck's-length dimensions -- where heaven and hell would presumably reside -- in the brane?
     
  20. pjmrt

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    I don't know if you were being injecting humor or not - but just in case, he got "brane" spelled correctly for the definition he employed.
     
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