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Superstations going away Sept19th- get grandfathered now

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by scottchez, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

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    There should be a way for providers to sell any market to anyone no what market the reside in.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. KyL416

    KyL416 Hall Of Fame

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    Sure, if you want to overhaul the entire network TV model. Including the money the stations pay for rights to their programming (both syndicated and network), as well as the regional coverage used for NFL, MLB and NCAA games. Then you have other existing rules like syndex that allows the local station to blackout programming on any out of market stations that would need to be thrown out. Take a look at some ad sales articles and see how much a 30 second local spot for things like the Super Bowl, the World Series, awards shows or major finales that still get high numbers like American Idol go for. Good luck getting any local advertiser to continue to pay that much for a spot if there's no longer any guarantee that the local viewers they are trying to target are watching the event on your station. Even if they try to balance it out by making out of market stations a premium to compensate the local station for lost viewership, that doesn't help the local business who's multimillion dollar Super Bowl ad buy isn't being seen locally.

    Even if all that gets thrown out, and somehow the network TV model survives since the local stations will not pay as much as they do now if they no longer have exclusive rights to their programming, as well as the smaller stations not owned by a conglomerate that can help absorb the lost revenue and will likely go under leaving no local news for many small to midsized markets, you have the technical hurdles. Not only do spot beams prevent locals from being received across the country, they also allow Dish and DirecTV to reuse the same frequencies in different parts of the country. There's currently 1773 licensed full powered stations, if you want to bring Class A stations into it that's another 416 stations. I'm not familiar with how many HD channels Dish packs on each transponder, but for a random average number let's say 8, the average satellite has 32 ku band transponders, that's only 256 channels. You would need to devote at least 8 satellites for a system where all locals are available nationally. Good luck finding enough slots for that in a space that is already crowded since in addition to Dish and DirecTV, other slots are taken up by other domestic and foreign use. (I believe Dish is actually leasing space from Canada's Bell TV to cover a portion of their eastern arc) And even if you somehow manage to find space for that, you would likely need multiple dishes to get it all since they would need to use every possible free space from 61 to 160 to cover it all, which would also create new line of site problems since for much of the country some of those slots need a clear shot of the horizon.
     
  3. sharonmu

    sharonmu New Member

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    Oct 3, 2013
    Kentucky
    I hope this is a okay post. Directv does offer neighboring local tv stations. And i found one area on Dish that offers them. here's the zip code for dish that offers them
    05201 look up locals with this zip on dish and you'll see there getting neighboring locals ( Significantly_viewed_out_of_market_TV_stations)
    Directv has tons of them.
    This site ROCKS!! sharon
    I just wish i had joined before superstations went away. And would be happy right now

    here's what they get
    Albany, NY - ABC (WTEN)
    Albany, NY - CBS (WRGB)
    Albany, NY - CW (WCWN)
    Albany, NY - FOX (WXXA)
    Albany, NY - ION (WYPX)
    Albany, NY - MNT (WNYA)
    Albany, NY - NBC (WNYT)
    Albany, NY - PBS (WMHT)
    Burlington, VT - ABC (WVNY)
    Burlington, VT - CBS (WCAX)
    Burlington, VT - FOX (WFFF)
    Burlington, VT - NBC (WNNE)
    Burlington, VT - NBC (WPTZ)
     
  4. SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

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    I hope this is a okay post. Directv does offer neighboring local tv stations. And i found one area on Dish that offers them. here's the zip code for dish that offers them
    05201 look up locals with this zip on dish and you'll see there getting neighboring locals ( Significantly_viewed_out_of_market_TV_stations)
    Directv has tons of them.
    This site ROCKS!! sharon
    I just wish i had joined before superstations went away. And would be happy right now

    here's what they get
    Albany, NY - ABC (WTEN)
    Albany, NY - CBS (WRGB)
    Albany, NY - CW (WCWN)
    Albany, NY - FOX (WXXA)
    Albany, NY - ION (WYPX)
    Albany, NY - MNT (WNYA)
    Albany, NY - NBC (WNYT)
    Albany, NY - PBS (WMHT)
    Burlington, VT - ABC (WVNY)
    Burlington, VT - CBS (WCAX)
    Burlington, VT - FOX (WFFF)
    Burlington, VT - NBC (WNNE)
    Burlington, VT - NBC (WPTZ)


    I am no where near that location. So 05201 would not help. Thank you anyway.
     
  5. sharonmu

    sharonmu New Member

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    Oct 3, 2013
    Kentucky
    We'll i just talked with AAD(all american direct) they tried to get the superstations package and dish wants too much money for them. Also they told me which doesn't make any since that Dish the reason they removed them( not selling anymore) was because all the channels wanted too much money to continue selling them. Which makes no sense cause they still have them. And also get this one i was wrong i didn't remove them i called in to remove WSBK and they removed them all except WWOR. i can't get them back either. I did find a great site for those of you that are like me and can't get all of your locals due to being to far away. Which doesn't help me they won't sell any market unless your payment verifys your zip code or you ip address is right. But at least die hard fans of all locals or being able to get METV & ANTENNA TV. maybe this will help those
    https://www.aereo.com/
     
  6. SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

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    We'll i just talked with AAD(all american direct) they tried to get the superstations package and dish wants too much money for them. Also they told me which doesn't make any since that Dish the reason they removed them( not selling anymore) was because all the channels wanted too much money to continue selling them. Which makes no sense cause they still have them. And also get this one i was wrong i didn't remove them i called in to remove WSBK and they removed them all except WWOR. i can't get them back either. I did find a great site for those of you that are like me and can't get all of your locals due to being to far away. Which doesn't help me they won't sell any market unless your payment verifys your zip code or you ip address is right. But at least die hard fans of all locals or being able to get METV & ANTENNA TV. maybe this will help those
    https://www.aereo.com/


    That company Aereo keeps emailing to start an account. So twice I attempted that. Because Aereo does not like me credit cards billing address I can not sign up.
     
  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    DISH does not pay superstations for their signals. They are carried under a statutory license arrangement where DISH pays into a fund and copyright holders (stations and programming) make claims against the fund for payment. The channels CANNOT demand more money for carriage from DISH as they are not paid as a channel by DISH!
     
  8. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    But James - can't they ask for compensation as their "Local" channel ?

    I'll admit - the "Superstations" are in a sort of legal black hole.
     
  9. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I believe that is the goal for the suits against Aereo ... but the question I was answering was superstation specific.
     
  10. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame

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    (Putting on hip waders)

    It was my understanding that the Superstation payments went to a pool to pay the content providers (syndicators et al), not the broadcasters. Remember that the law was established waaay back when nobody paid significant retransmission money to local stations.

    I think scooter was saying that when it's time to negotiate WSBK's Boston LIL retransmission consent payment, the station could tie in a request to get paid for all those Supers subs.

    Aereo's major drawback is that even if you've got a credit card with a local address, you still can't watch it unless your IP is in the local market. This means that normal, legitimate Aereo subs can't watch TV from an out-of-town hotel room. If you really want to read more about it, you can read my Aereo experience here: http://www.ftablog.com/2013/08/13/my-nyc-visit-with-aereo/ In sum, it's not a good Superstation alternative.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    A station may ask for anything ... whether they get it or not is another issue.
    Legally DISH does not have to ask WSBK or any other superstation's permission to be retransmitted as a superstation and you are correct about the pool payments for the statutory license. The only way the station could get paid would be if they had a claim against the statutory license fund.

    Refusing to allow their station to be carried in their own local market is where the station has leverage. Would WSBK refuse to be aired to Boston subscribers without compensation for national Superstation subscribers? That could end up with WSBK aired to everyone except the Boston market.

    I don't know why Aereo is so focused on in market delivery ... they seem to say that the law does not apply to them in market. But there is a law that would apply to them out of market?

    If I set up my Sling equipment and connected it to an OTA tuner there would be no geographic limitation for where I could receive the signal ... and it would be legal under the personal use exemptions to copyright law (my encoder in my home encoding content I receive there ... not a company doing the receiving on my behalf).

    (Some day I should try to poke a hole in the firewall and connect to my HD Homerun from outside.)
     
  12. Nov 1, 2013 #132 of 213
    SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

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    Aereo to me does not want to survive with all these ideas of the IP address and credit card address. I do not think I would even care if the company closes. It would be their own fault.
     
  13. Nov 1, 2013 #133 of 213
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Aereo to me dies not want to survive with all these ideas of the IP address and credit card address. I do not think I would even care if the company closes. It would be their own fault.


    If they don't like your billing address ten it's not in the area that you are trying to subscribe service for and therefore your likely trying to grab service for an area you are not in which would be illegal. Is your billing address in the same zip code as your living address? Are they the same address or different addresses?
     
  14. Nov 2, 2013 #134 of 213
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Aereo seems to be making up their own laws ... if their theory is separate antennas, tuners and DVRs working independently of each other is not rebroadcast as defined by law what law is preventing Aereo from transmitting the signal anywhere? It seems funny that they are apparently strictly following laws that apply to cable and satellite while claiming that similar laws that apply to cable and satellite do not apply.
     
  15. Nov 2, 2013 #135 of 213
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Good point. But... Reminds me of the question of sling... One small cavet there IMHO that is why they are sticking to this policy. Even if you have and use sling, you have to have a TV location in the proper DMA and collect it from a source in that DMA, so it could be that they are making sure you have a location in the proper DMA that should be able to get that source in the first place without their service, before letting lose.

    That actually makes some sense to me. Of course sling you don't have to prove anything because its fully controlled and maintained by the customer, but as a business, they probably want to Verify that they customers are not circumventing DMA rules. They believe they are not doing so with their tech because there tech is simply moving where the DVR and antenna are located in the dma, and they are not changing how it's used in someone's home in that DMA. Not checking people locations would be changing that though.

    I actually like that argument and is part of the reason I have always felt that it should be illegal for any over the air channel to ask for money from cable and sat companies for retrans deals as long as everything is done within the rules of what can be broadcast where inside each DMA.
     
  16. Nov 2, 2013 #136 of 213
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I can't follow that logic. It is like saying that it is OK for them to help steal from the Walmart in your home town but they won't help you steal from the Walmart out of state. Aereo will, for a fee, help customers take the signals of OTA stations without compensating the local stations for rebroadcast. Cable and satellite companies could make the same argument that they are only delivering the channels to people who are entitled to receive them OTA. Only the technology differs.

    But I digress ... there are other threads for Aereo.
     
  17. Nov 2, 2013 #137 of 213
    SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

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    I can't follow that logic. It is like saying that it is OK for them to help steal from the Walmart in your home town but they won't help you steal from the Walmart out of state. Aereo will, for a fee, help customers take the signals of OTA stations without compensating the local stations for rebroadcast. Cable and satellite companies could make the same argument that they are only delivering the channels to people who are entitled to receive them OTA. Only the technology differs.

    But I digress ... there are other threads for Aereo.


    How do I get Aereo to do that for me?
     
  18. Feb 3, 2014 #138 of 213
    sharonmu

    sharonmu New Member

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    Kentucky
    Is there a topic yet about All American Direct closing operations on February 25th 2014. Please let me know. What else is dish going to take away from us. And i'm paid up til April Is this enough of a reason to cancel dish.
     
  19. Feb 3, 2014 #139 of 213
    Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    Dish has nothing to do with AAD, except for leasing the transponder space on the satellite to them.

    Dish is not taking away your Distant Networks AAD is going out of business.

    Some may argue that Dish should have sold the transponder space to them at a lower price, but...
     
  20. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit late in adding my comments, but like others, one of the main reasons I picked up Dish back in 1999 was because they carried the supers. Infact, I started watching KTLA's news on a feed on my big dish back in 1985. Then in 1986, the supers were added. I had them for years with my big dish. We even got KTVR Denver and another out of Ft Worth Texas for a time. Later that station went to a network. So I have watched them since the beginning. As mentioned earlier, the Roku carries a lot of news from many TV stations, but not KTLA as yet. KTTV 11 LA is now available on the Roku and many TV stations do have their live news and news on demand,. For those news hounds out there, like me, adding the Roku has bdeen great. Look up Nowhere TV for more additional TV stations. I hope Dish keeps the Supers. I have never dropped them and I never will.
     

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