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SWM 16 and 4-way splitters

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by RandallA, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Sep 1, 2010 #1 of 20
    RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    I have an interesting problem with a SWM 16 and 2 4-way splitters. I'm attaching a picture of my setup but basically I have a Slimline dish going to a SWM 16. The SWM 16 feeds two 4-way splitters. I have a D12 (PI for SWM 16 is on this run), R22 and H24 on the splitter coming from SWM1. I have 2 HR-24s and a H24 on the second splitter coming from SWM2. I also have a 2 way splitter in one of the runs that feeds an HR24. One leg goes to the HR24 and the other one to a DECA that connects to the router.

    The problem: If I move the HR24 going to the 2 way splitter from splitter 2 to splitter 1, I lose all satellite signals on splitter 2 (H24 and HR24 show 0s in the signal meter and the 771 message). If I just disconnect the HR24 receiver but don't connect it to splitter 1, splitter 2 continues to have satellite signal.

    I have disconnected all runs to the splitters and disconnected the PI from the wall hoping to reset the SWM configuration but that didn't work. I have also connected a receiver directly to SWM2 (bypassing the 4 way splitter) and no satellite signal on SWM2 if I connect the HR24 to splitter 1. If I move that receiver back to splitter 2, everything is fine. I must add that the cable run for that HR24 is the longest in the system, about 100 ft. Splitters are about 35 ft away from the SWM 16.

    What could be causing this problem? I'm puzzled by this. I originally had 2 8-way splitters but noticed immediately the high loss on these 8 way splitters so I purchased 2 4-way splitters from Solidsignal. When I had the 8 way splitters I could move receivers anyway I wanted, well except for the one powering the SWM 16.

    I'm new to Directv so I'm still learning abut SWM, DECA, MRV and how everything works. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Sep 1, 2010 #2 of 20
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This is strange. I noticed you have the 2-way positioned in the right direction in you image, but the 4-ways aren't.
    Is this just because it was easier to draw that way, or are they actually backwards?
     
  3. Sep 1, 2010 #3 of 20
    RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    Just easy to draw the image. The splitters are in the correct position and cables are connected correctly. I will fix the drawing to reflect the actual connections. It's a very strange problem indeed and the system is working but this has been bugging me for the last two days.
     
  4. Sep 1, 2010 #4 of 20
    jep8821

    jep8821 Mentor

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    Could it be that the PI is only feeding power to SWM1 for some reason. Can you try the PI directly on the pwer port of the swm-16 and see if it works then.

    Thanks

    Jason
     
  5. Sep 1, 2010 #5 of 20
    RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    But why when I plug back the HR24 to splitter 2 works just fine?
     
  6. Sep 1, 2010 #6 of 20
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Which is the $64,000 question.
    None of what you've described makes any sense. Not that this isn't happening to you, just that it doesn't point to/suggest what the problem is. :shrug:
     
  7. Sep 1, 2010 #7 of 20
    RandallA

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    I'm glad it's not something I'm overlooking. I updated the diagram the best I can to avoid confusion.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Sep 1, 2010 #8 of 20
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I'm sure we can "pass over" the SWiM-16 having the dish connected to the legacy ports in your drawing.
    [​IMG]

    You seem to have one HR24 that is doing very strange things. What happens if you try another HR24 and repeat the same steps?
     
  9. Sep 1, 2010 #9 of 20
    RandallA

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    This afternoon, I'll disconnect power from all receivers and the PI and connect everything back. I'm hoping that will clear whatever is causing this problem. I will also try moving the second HR24 to splitter 1 and see if that causes the same problem.

    Thanks.
     
  10. RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    Connected the second HR-24-500 to splitter 1, everything works fine. Connected the troubled HR-24-100 to different ports on splitter 1 same problem, receivers on splitter 2 lose satellite signal.

    I disconnected everything for 10 minutes. Connected the PI and waited a few minutes. Connected the HR24-500 to splitter 2 and got signal just fine. Connected the HR24-100 to splitter 1, lost signal on the HR24-500.

    Tomorrow I'll probably swap splitters and see if the same thing happens. All I can think of is that HR-24-100 is passing voltage or interference that's killing the SWM2 port. This is bizarre.
     
  11. RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    Just noticed that. Sorry, I'll update the drawing. :) In reality they do go to the satellite inputs.
     
  12. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I'm getting the idea that the HR24-100 is defective. SWiM had basically two parts to it: the SWiM channels and the 2.3 MHz comm signal. It kind of sounds like there is a problem with this DVR shorting out [or in some other way distorting] the 2.3 MHz.
     
  13. RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    That's all I can think of. Just wanted to add that this receiver is on the longest run, it's about 100 ft from splitter to receiver and another 35 ft from SWM 16 to splitter. Dish is about 15 ft from SWM 16.
     
  14. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I don't think these distances have anything to do with it. "If anything" it seems like the longest run is the only one that does work, which might suggest the 2.3 MHz needs to be attenuated to be able to work with other receivers.
     
  15. DrummerBoy523

    DrummerBoy523 Godfather

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    not that it should matter - but you don't show a PI on your Broadband DECA attached to your router.
     
  16. eakes

    eakes Godfather

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    I believe VOS has the answer. When the 8-way splitters were equipped, receivers could be moved anywhere without a problem. The 8-ways were changed to 4-ways plus on one of the 4-ways a 2-way has been added and that happens to be where the 'troubled' receiver is located.

    A 4-way followed by a 2-way has the same attenuation as an 8-way. That additional 3db power loss is the difference between the 'trouble' receiver working at its normal location and bringing the system down at any other location. The problem could be an impedance mismatch at that receiver input causing reflections which interfere with the communications channel or the comm channel level could be too high from that receiver causing problems with other receivers.

    As a test, move the bad receiver to another location. This should cause the system to fail. Now put a 2-way splitter in line with the bad receiver and observe the results.
     
  17. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This is a very strange problem.
    I still would get the receiver replaced, since it should work directly off the SWiM port.
    This receiver might be spitting out noise around the 2.3 MHz signal. With enough attenuation this noise is low enough that the SWiM can lock on the 2.3 MHz signal.
    This is just a guess trying to explain how/why this is happening, but the bottom line is replace the receiver.
     
  18. RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    I think I found the problem. Looks like an OTA antenna in the attic was causing interference with the two lines going to the H24 and the HR24-500. These two receivers are in rooms next to each other so the cables run parallel to each other. I say "looks like" because I also moved the SWM 16 inside the house.

    First I moved the SWM 16 inside the garage. I put a ground block where the SWM 16 was and moved the switch inside. I had to redo some of the fittings and some of the signal runs on different cables now (possible fix). After doing that, I moved the HR24-100 to splitter 1 and didn't lose the satellite signals on either receiver but lost MRV. I couldn't see the other receivers on the H24 and the HR24-500.

    A few hours later it hit me that the culprit might not be the HR24-100 but the OTA antenna interfering with both cable runs. Both cable runs are joined by barrel connectors in the attic because when I had Dish Network, I was using diplexers there to combine the OTA signal and satellite signal to the receivers. So went into the attic and moved the two cables as far away as I could from the OTA, checked both receivers and they're both working as they should.

    This is what made think of the OTA antenna, thanks VOS. Since I didn't have the OTA in the diagram, nobody but me could have detected the problem. I didn't think that it was a problem at all.

    I've redone the diagram to show how the setup looks now. Thanks for all the ideas and suggestion. This one got me puzzled for a while. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    As long as the OTA wasn't diplexed/connected to the SWiM coax, it shouldn't have been a problem. I've got OTA & SWiM coax in the same conduit which can't get much closer to each other.
    Changing cables and/or connectors has a much higher likelihood of being what resolved it.
     
  20. RandallA

    RandallA Legend

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    Agreed. However, MRV was not working on those two receivers after I moved the SWM 16 inside. It started working after I moved the two cables away from the antenna and no, I wasn't using any diplexers on those two lines. In any event, I'm glad it's solved because I was puzzled by this problem. Plus I've never liked having switches outside so the problem made me move it inside. :D
     

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