Tech said I should use "native off"

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by dlh, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. dlh

    dlh AllStar

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    Don't want to start the whole "native off or on" thing again.
    A tech was here and while I was double checking signal strengths and channels, I mentioned having "native" set to on to allow the tv to process the signal. He said, "Oh DTV says you should always have native set to off."

    I asked him if there was more to it than just the speed of channel changing (like possible effects on hardware) and he didn't really give any details. Maybe he was just repeating DTV recommendations. This was one of the more knowledgeable tech/installers that was here to fix a bad install. (Really great guy)

    So, just thought I' throw that out there to see if anyone's ever heard of other reasons than picture quality and speed.
     
  2. litzdog911

    litzdog911 Well-Known Member

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    With many HDTVs it does take longer to change channels with Native On, so it's not suprising that techs prefer to set it Off. And in most cases it probably doesn't matter from a video quality perspective. It's just a matter of whether the TV does a better job of converting the native format (Native On), or if the HD Receiver/DVR does (Native Off). Most modern TVs probably do a better job, but the video differences will be pretty subtle.
     
  3. dcowboy7

    dcowboy7 Hall Of Fame

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    "Native on" is a SCAM.*

    *inside joke based on another thread. :D
     
  4. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "Bull"

    Been using native on since the first day I got my Sony.
    Also I don't use it on my Vizio, since it's a 1368 x 768 display and my Sony is a 1080p with a much better scaler than the H/HR2x.
     
  5. Greg Alsobrook

    Greg Alsobrook Lifetime Achiever

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    The speed isn't an issue for my on my Sony TVs... So I leave it on... but friends and family that have Samsungs I always turn it off for them... Takes a lot longer and causes the screen to "wig out" for a couple seconds...
     
  6. litzdog911

    litzdog911 Well-Known Member

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    I have "Native ON" on all of my DVRs. Of course, I hardly ever channel surf or watch Live TV, so the slower channel change doesn't bother me. I just think my HDTVs do a better job of converting the video than the DVR's processors.
     
  7. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    For the "average Joe Sixpack" Native set to Off is probably best, easiest to support because there are less problems and frankly they would never see the difference. So I don't doubt one bit that the "standard" is Native Off.

    I personally have it off because I see no difference in video quality with it on and I'd rather have much quicker channel changes.

    But there is nothing wrong with it set to on, so long as you understand the downside and/or how your TV reacts to it.
     
  8. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "nail on head"
    If you can't see any difference then why used it?
    "Simple test":
    Tune to an SD channel in 480 output. Change [receiver] to the crop format, then to original format and use either your TV, or the external scaler you may have, and change it to zoom. Can you see a difference in the PQ?
    If not, then there is no advantage to native on.
    If you can, then you have "your" answer and it doesn't matter what anybody else says/tells you.
     
  9. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Since my DVR's are connected to an Edge Video Processor, I always use Native ON. There's an obvious difference in PQ.
     
  10. KoRn

    KoRn Legend

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    I say on. As a matter of fact. I remember having Charter cable and the Motorola box did not have native resolution support. 1 reason why I dropped them and went with Directv. A bit extreme for some. But when you are a audio/video nut head like myself. It really matters. PQ will also be better. If you are watching some thing in 1080i and the program is showing in 720p. You will get a softer looking picture. Due to more scaling going on that is not needed. Match things up and it looks fantastic.
     
  11. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Personally, I lock mine (native off) to the displays native resolution.

    MY AQUOS looks like crap displaying 720p (its a 1080i/p native display panel). With native on, all the sports channels using 720p look fuzzy. Letting the HR22 upconvert averything to 1080i looks better on my display, and is twice as fast changing channels.

    On the HR20, I lock at 720p, for my Polaroid's 720p display. I can see NO difference on the display between a 720p input or a 1080i input.

    Just set it the way it works/looks best for you.
     
  12. sooner02

    sooner02 Legend

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    I have a native 720p set, and I've tried both native off and on. I have to say, after going back and forth that native on looks remarkably better. It's a crisper, more eye-popping colorful HD picture when native is on. I can force all to 720p, but the colors just don't seem to pop out as dynamically.
     
  13. ThePrisoner

    ThePrisoner Legend

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    I keep native on but use only 480i, 1080i/p from my HR21-700. My display is a 1080p plasma which has 1:1 pixel mapping (no overscan when displaying 1080i/p).
     
  14. MLBurks

    MLBurks Icon

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    I have a Vizio with a 1368 X 768 display and it does a way better job at conversion than my HR21. SD looks a lot better. HD looks the same to me. So since I do still watch some SD, I have it set to on.
     
  15. MIAMI1683

    MIAMI1683 New Member

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    I have native off on all 4 of my HDTV's. All set to original format. # are 1080P tv's. They all look excellent. If native on allows the TV to do the scaling then I don't see why I should change. Now as others have said. I think it's all about preference
     
  16. BubblePuppy

    BubblePuppy Good night dear Smoke... love you & "got your butt

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    Here is what I don't quite get, I assume Native On is essentially a pass through (correct?), so why even have the resolution choices? The tv is going to res everything to its native resolution, correct? If the tv is a 1080p it will up res everything to 1080p, or am I missing something?
    I understand having res choices with Native Off.
     
  17. MIAMI1683

    MIAMI1683 New Member

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    That's a good question. I thought the TV would take it to what ever was being broadcasted. IE if D* is sending it at 1080I that would res it correctly. Otherwise when I turn off native and set the HRxx to 1080I only lets ay. What ever is being passed through is already at 1080I
     
  18. tkrandall

    tkrandall Hall Of Fame

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    I have a Samsung DLP 1080p/60 capable set and HR20 hooked up via HDMI and I leave Native Off (and resolution set to 1080i) for that very "wigging out" reason. I could really see no difference in PQ with letting the TV do the scaling of the HDMI input from the DVR versus letting the HR20 do it. With Native On, the TV has a 1-2 second screen reset event everytime it goes from a 720 to a 1080 source from the DVR, whether that's a channel off the dish or from the OTA antenna hooked up to he DVR. This is unlike the OTA channels coming directly from the antenna to the TV's tuner - the TV handles that format change seamlessly.
     
  19. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Native off becomes a matter of preference more than anything.

    If you don't want to see your display adjust every time a new channel is selected that presents in 720p or 1080i or 1080p...then leave native off, and pick a format and leave it there.

    Others want to have the presentation as it is sent out in that format.

    There is no right or wrong - it comes down to your own taste.
     
  20. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    What Native on does is simply send the resolution the channel is. So you can think of it as a kind of passthru.

    As for resolution choices...what if your TV won't do 720p? At least in the past, perhaps now still, there were TVs that were 1080i but couldn't accept a 720p signal. Same the other way around, a 720p TV may not even accept a 1080i signal. Thus you'd want to uncheck the resolutions that your TV can't accept or doesn't upconvert properly.

    When I first got these things back nearly 3 years ago I tried Native On and in the resolutions checked 480i and 1080i only. Why? Well, I had a 1080i TV and while it would accept a 720p signal it didn't do all that great at upconverting it to 1080i, at least not as good as the HRs did. Eventually I got sick of the channel change slowness and just forced everything to 1080i and frankly saw no difference in 480i content being upconverted by the HR vs. the TV.

    With my new Plasma it's a 1080p TV. My HR by far does a better 480i upconversion then it does, at least to my eyes. I see no visible difference in 720p or 1080i material on it so I just have kept Native Off and send it 1080i all the time for it to upconvert to 1080p.

    I think the moral of the story here is there are dozens of combinations of native off/on, resolutions and how/what upconverts programming. Frankly there is no right or wrong answer here. It's all about what looks best on your unique combination of equipment. Set it to what looks best and go from there.
     

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