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Discussion in 'The OT' started by Zellio, Jul 13, 2009.
Ah Ha! .. proof of hdtvfan0001's item #1 ..
Ego? I'm proud to be raised right, not like a majority of the people in my generation.
It's funny, some people in this topic obviously don't want to hear the truth, yet you hear this exact same argument from work, from school...
Hell, my mother the teacher says it's worse then it's ever been!
Hey, what about this:
Every generation looks down on the newest, yes. But there has never been one to call a new generation flat out the DUMBEST.
Like it or not, whine to mommy because I hurt your feelings, but this type of remorse towards gen y is going on everywhere, and most of it is substaintuated.
Try looking up stats. Alot of employers don't like Gen Y. They don't like the attitudes, the demands, and the fact that alot of gen y people up and leave in a year or less.
Teachers are going nuts over kids. Kids have all the rights today, and alot of times teachers get assaulted. Look it up, teachers get things thrown at them and can't do anything about it.
But you lay a finger on the kids and you go to jail.
Ignore reality all you want, but even being part of gen y makes me look bad as far as getting a job. I really want to distance myself as far as possible from this generation. There has never been such dislike for a generation.
The simple way to find out how bad this generation as gotten is ask any teacher. And no, it isn't isolated incidents, any teacher can tell you, they are under tons of stress, they are not supposed to JUST teach kids now, they are supposed to PARENT bratty kids that parents aren't doing their job for! Schools are worse then ever, and most of the kids my mom got the past year are thugs who do nothing but steal constantly.
And my mom doesn't teach high school, my mom teaches 2ND GRADE, at a school in a good neighborhood. The school's kids are nothing but thugs.
She's been at the same school for 20 years. When she started the kids were great, and parents came to PTA.
Overtime it's gotten far, far worse.
This year only 3 parents bothered to come to open house to meet the parents! That's right, a large majority of parents didn't give a **** about where their kids are or who teaches them, as long as uncle sam pays for 'parenting'.
Keep denying the truth, but people who actually live with gen y kids know this generation.
And yes, I said open house. Open house, where you meet your childrens future teachers.
ONLY 3 PARENTS CAME. NO TEACHER HAS EVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS.
And this isn't an isolated incident. This is happening everywhere. Parents couldn't care less about their kids, and the kids are nothing but thugs.
And before you say something like 'the parents may have work and couldn't come', that certainly didn't stop those parents last year from calling the principal and blaming my mother when their bratty kid did bad on a grade.
And yes, this happened. The parents would call and try to get my mom in trouble when their kid did bad.
I wanted to comment here since my son just finished second grade and my mother is a recently retired school teacher who still subs for supplimental income. I also happen to be project manager for a company whose function is improving education.
First regarding the parent/student relationship. In our open houses at our school it always jam packed. Compare this to the late 70's when I was in grade school and things are vastly different.
1) Parents are now expected to take part in children's education more then ever before. To the point where homework assignments are now parent/child assignments with instructions to the parents.
What? Really? I get home from work and get to sit at the table and do homework with my child? I don't recall my parents ever sitting down with me to do my homework. It was up to me to get it done. Of course, I was much older when I actually got homework.
Don't get me wrong, I am glad that schools are finally getting parents more involved, but my son gets out of school for summer break and yes, we have instructions from the teacher with summer homework assignments! For this, I might as well home school my child.
Seriously, it seems as if the modern day teachers think the best time to educate a child is at home because the classroom enviroment is somehow not conducive to educating children.
2) This year my second grader had on average an hour of homework a night. Ever wonder why they have so much pent up energy. Try having a child sit all day long, only to come home and sit all night long. I had absolutely no homework when I was in second grade, unless it was making a valentine's day box and making cards.
3) In my day, it was the responsibility of the parent to parent and teach the child values, it was the responsibility of the teacher to educate. In this day, it is the responsibility of the parent to parent, the parent to educate and the teacher to teach values. No offense (well yes offense) but leave the values to me and get back to education.
4) In my day, a child who was full of spit and vinager, was normally called a boy. In this day, a child who is full of spit and vinager is called an ADD child.
5) In my day, teacher dealt with children who were naughty. In this day, thanks to law suits and unions and political correctness, children are sent to a counciler or some other adminstrator who then recommends to the parent pyschotropic (mind altering) drugs!
6) In my day, a class full of routy kids was blamed on the teacher inability to control the class room. Today a class of routy kids, means they need the levels of their mind numbing drugs adjusted.
7) In my day pre-k was non existant. Pre-school then straight on to kindergarten. Today, children are pushed into pre-k so that schools can improve their NCLB scores and parents have a one year older and much larger senior football player.
I could go on and on. I swear though, I get really tired of hearing about these union protected teachers complaining about their students. Unless they are teaching at a low income school where there are real issues and a need for metal detectors, I don't want to hear about.
Every generaion is the same. There are good eggs, bad eggs, smart eggs, brain dead eggs. This is no different. Maturity takes time to develop, but eventually does develop in most people and maybe not always in every way. I'm a mature adult, but I still like to play with my tech toys - so to some that might appear as immature. Sure, there may be more people than ever who are not doing well in the parenting department, but throughout time there has been both good and bad parenting and it will be that way for the duration of the amount of time that mankind has left as a species. As long as most of us just do the best we can, the status quo will continue and frankly, that's good enough for me. Take responsability for yourself and your family, that includes investing in or doing what you have to, to attempt to protect them - and leave the rest to God, your favorite diety or what not. Beyond that, help others as you can, but don't fret over what you cannot control or do. Life is short and it's not worth adding stress to your life which will eventually help to kill you.
Aside from that. As I was born on 6/6/1963, technically, I'm a baby boomer, but I'm so close to the cusp of the end of the baby boomers that in a lot of ways, I identify better with Generation X'ers. It's funny, but generations aren't really all that well defined.
When you try to discuss the low test scores of todays High School students compared to the perceived "Tech" countries like Japan, etc., they tell me, every single time, that it is because we are required to include Special Ed and various other categories that the other countries don't include. I finally called BS on that with my mom and sister, who are both teachers. My sister teaches ESL and my mom taught Special Ed. They both admitted that there are so many children in school that are not learning anything, they are being babysat - fulltime - by our taxes. My neighbor is a teacher's assistant at my boys' high school. Her job? To take care of a 17 year old boy in a wheel chair and a diaper who has no speech or learning ability. But he can scream very loudly and break things that are near him.
These kids are not tested, they are not even considered functioning. And they should not be in public school disrupting learning and eating up tax dollars.
One thing I can agree with you about is homework .. It is truly insane and I had nothing like the amount of homework my Daughter has had and this from Elementary and Middle School. I've asked the very same question .. Isn't 8 hours a day of school enough? It's often turned into 12 hours which just doesn't make sense to me.
Without mentioning where I work and what states I represent, one of our contracts is with a very large state and it is for measuring students with significant cognitive disabilities.
Due to NCLB standards, these students (the 1%) are required to be tested so that their growth can be measured and the scores can be provided to the Feds. And of course, the results then come back in the form of funding.
I have to say that much of the feedback we get from the teachers who actually have to give this tests is really mixed. This type of test is for the lowest 1% of the population. If a teacher has students representing the higher function 1% they love the tests and the measuring. If they have the lower functioning in that 1% then they typical feedback is upset to enraged that we are even bother with students who they are trying to just pass on life skills.
The costs associated to the state for this kind of testing (and that means taxes) is very high. They are paying for everything from the development of the contents of the tests...the pyschometricians and content teams, to the actually development of the test books to the delivery and return of the secure test materials to the reporting and hard copy reports that get delivered to the schools, districts and states. Not to mention the training and other services involved. It is very costly.
I have a cousin who was brought up through the public school system and would fit in that 1%. I am mixed on my opinions here.
That 1% represents a very diverse set of abilities for students. I believe that in some cases, the higher functioning of that 1%, measuring does add value and enforce responsibilities with the schools. But I also believe that at certain levels of functioning, like my cousin, life skills it what really is required.
I guess, in the end, I am not a big fan of No Child Left Behind and the way it is implemented. I do believe in trying to teach those with significant cognitive disabilities that are higher functioning so that they have what life skills they can learn and that if possible they can do basic math etc... And eventually go out and live on their own. However, I am not sure it belongs in the public school system. And when I see the really serverly disabled, the children that your heart goes out too because they operate somewhere between a 6 month old and a two year old.... I am not sure what value any of this is for them. They will never be on their to use life skills in the first place. What are we paying for with these students?
Balestrom, I agree with everything you said. And all those costs you mentioned? Does not even begin to cover what I mentioned above about full-time aides, transportation, and whatever things the schools must have to allow severely handicapped students to attend.
But my understanding is that some law passed in the 1970's is what changed to move all this to the public school system. It had to do with a law that said every child is entitled to a public school education.
Balestrom, I don't know how it is in Iowa but, in Texas preK starts at 4 so it does not help you on the football front.
My MIL is a grader of standardized tests. Recently she graded some HS level essays for a state test (don't know which state). She was instructed to only look for certain "points" and if they mentioned it, they got a point.
She said it was hard to read some of theses tests because at her age she doesn't speak "text", yet these students wrote essays on a standardized test like they were texting. Let them try that on a job.
Nobody is. Crap like NCLB is made though to parent kids at school because the actual parents refuse too.
Parents don't prepare their children for life, schools don't teach kids now, how the hell are they supposed to learn anything?
You can call it generalizing all you want, but society has made sure the kids will fail.
And it hasn't just partially failed. Society has spectacularly failed. 'Think of the children', which was once a rallying call for actual parents to do good for their children, is now a policy for corrupt lawmakers to take away rights.
And of course the guys who make the child pron laws commit statutory rape themselves... Look it up, one of the major child porn lawmakers was arrested for underage sex.
In Iowa as it is in many states (maybe not all) pre-school is provided for 3 and 4 year old students.
Kindergarten is for 5 year olds turning 6.
Pre-K is set up as an alternative to Kindergarten, but is not pre school. So in Iowa, as in many states (as Pre School and Pre - K are now federally funded) pre-school is available for two years (3 & 4 yr olds), then the parents have a choice of alternative kindergarten (Pre - K) or Kindergarten. If the student takes Pre-K then they have skipped a year as they then need to to take Kindergarten the following year before the can begin first grade.
As I stated, many schools now push parents into having their children take Pre-K instead of going straight from pre-school to kindergarten. From a schools perspective, the more students that take pre-k the better. Federal funding has a lot to do with this. A good population of Pre-K students ensures the flow of federal and state funds to that school. But also, with NCLB, it also allows the students to mature an additional year, thus in theory increasing the over all scores on the assessments that they are given. Again, this is tied better performance and better funding.
In essessence, it takes away the focus on what is best for the child and puts the focus on what is best for the school regardless of the child.
I have a daughter that is 5 and will be starting K in a month or so. My wife and I wanted her to go to pre-K this past year and were told by both school districts we lived in that pre-k was only for minority or low income students. So in Houston, and maybe Texas, public pre-K isn't available to all students. Instead, we sent her to the MDO program at a church by our house.
My mom just retired from teaching 2nd and 3rd graders and one of the things bothered her most was a requirement that every child had to have a grade for every day they were in class. It may have been a local school district thing here, but she constantly had to assign busy work to get something down in the grade book. So that may be why your 2nd grader had homework every night.
My son attened PreK a 4 year old this past year. We also made way too much money to qualify but, in our district after all of the low income kids get in the other ones that applied get the extra spots. It is not a big deal because we are a small district and only one kids actually met the low income requirment so all the 4 years olds that wanted in got in. Again, unless you have 5 year olds taking PreK, you don't get 19 year old seniors playing football.
Well, I certainly cannot speak for Houston, or the entire state of TX. I am sure its an issue with federal and state funding.
But, my job does puts me close to many other states and what they are doing with education. Again, Pre-K has become a very popular alternative to Kindergarten and many times its for the wrong reasons.
So, are you saying that many states have childeren that are attending PreK when they are 5-6 instead of K as they should be?