The Corona Virus, What Will We Lose When It Ends?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Rich, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. May 9, 2020 #181 of 442
    billsharpe

    billsharpe Hall Of Fame

    3,100
    142
    Jan 25, 2007
    Southern...
    I was born in July 1930. The Great Depression is probably why I'm an only child. And I believe we really didn't pull out of that recession until 1940.
     
  2. May 9, 2020 #182 of 442
    jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    9,913
    813
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    I do not think you can compare this to way back then.

    We have equipment that is so far advanced from back then it is just almost ridiculous.
    I remember when we bought our first Numerical Control machine in the machine shop.
    It made things so much faster than a manual lathe it was like wow !
    10 years later we were getting rid of them and getting the next phase of technology. The increase of capability and speed of execution was mind blowing.
    We have so many drug companies working to be the first with a cure and a vaccination.
    All the roadblocks of old are almost all pushed aside to facilitate getting to the solution.
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    50,507
    2,121
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    I don't mind the inevitable being delayed until there are enough ICU beds for all who will need them. If some people want to volunteer to go first I can't stop them. I am hoping that by the time it comes to me and my family there is herd immunity or a vaccine/cure. But there is no police force keeping me in my home.

    What I would like to see stop is the social disruptions. The people screaming at the top of their lungs expelling the contents of their lungs on everyone in their vicinity need to take it down a few notches. This kind of anti-social behavior predates COVID-19 and it needs to stop. COVID-19 is not the virus that will do in our society - the virus is the lack of civility.

    Businesses have long had the ability and responsibility to follow certain restrictions such as "no shirt, no shoes, no service" and "no pets (service animals permitted)". If a business decides that "masks required" should be added, and they apply such restriction to all potential patrons regardless of age, sex, race, orientation, preference, disability, etc. what constitutional right is being violated? Does anyone have the constitutional right to put others health and safety in jeopardy? Hell no!

    Businesses are being bullied by the loud and obnoxious uncivil element that has been tearing apart our society for years. What should be "masks required" has turned in to "masks strongly recommended unless you are a loud mouth ass". There are stronger restrictions on governments (although I don't recall spreading viruses being a constitutional right). Can masks be required at polling places? Probably not as many see that as a barrier to voting (similar to voter ID laws). The funny thing is that the people complaning about being required to wear a mask are probably at the other end of the political spectrum from those complaining about being required to show ID.

    So how about some civility? Stop expelling your lungs in other people's faces or wiping your nose on a clerk's sleeve or shooting a food service employee or killing a security guard when asked to wear a mask. If you want the "freeedom" to not wear a mask understand that you have the freedom to take your business elsewhere. An armed insurrection is not needed - it seems like some people are just looking for an excuse to be the worst of our society. Be nice.

    Restrictions are beginning to be lifted ... and most Americans believe it is too soon. At the beginning of the restrictions people feared that their employer would require work attendance and they would need to choose between their job and (potentially) their life. Hopefully the relaxed restrictions will help calm the vocal minority.

    (Note: The above observations are based on many television reports and should not be construed as directly applicable to any particular person or persons, poster or posters on this forum. So please don't get your panties in a wad and take this personally. These observations are, as usual, my opinions and not the opinions of this website.)
     
    steve053, Rich and NYDutch like this.
  4. Nick

    Nick Charter Gold Club Member DBSTalk Club

    22,049
    268
    Apr 23, 2002
    The...
    ^ Here, here, James! Well said. ^
     
  5. peano

    peano Icon

    797
    33
    Feb 1, 2004
    James, I agree about the demonstrators. They are not helping anything. Except that women with the salon in Texas. Locked up because she would not apologize to the judge. That kind of over reach drives me nuts.

    As for opening too soon, look at Jacksonville FL. I believe they opened their beaches about 3 weeks ago? Shouldn't their hospitals be overflowing with sick people by now?
     
  6. jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    9,913
    813
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    The Florida governor said their numbers in that county actually went down.

    I believe that the UV rays in the sunshine helps to quickly kill the airborne particles.
     
    Rich likes this.
  7. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    7,357
    697
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    Beaches opening isn't what I'd call it. You can go to the beaches, can't be next to anyone unless they are immediate family, no stopping on the beach (walking, running, exercising only), and the initial hours were from 8am to noon and then 4pm to 8pm. Sort of like the parks here that never closed.
     
  8. cpalmer2k

    cpalmer2k New Member

    310
    37
    May 24, 2010
    I agree the protests with no social distancing, etc are just dumb and need to stop. However, I cannot fault people for being upset in a lot of areas. When this began I, like most others, bought into this "two weeks to flatten the curve" argument most states put out there. That was in mid-March. Here we are in a situation where most states won't be completely open by the end of May. For many that is well over two months of "stay at home" orders. During that time we've learned a lot about the virus. We have a good idea now who is "at risk" and who is less "at risk". I support the states that are opening back up, including mine. It's time to let life move on for those who want it to. If you want to stay home then by all means do, but states need to stop telling me and everyone else that we have to.

    Statistics show us if you are 65 and older you need to take extra precautions. If you're between 40-65 and have other health issues you should consider taking precautions. Absent having one of the co-morbidities the large majority below 40 are going to be fine even if they catch it. Are there exceptions to that rule? Absolutely. But a lot of things kill people in America. It's time people start taking responsibility and protecting themselves if they feel they are "at risk" and the rest of us need to do our part by maintaining the basic social distancing guidelines. I do have a problem with businesses requiring people masks. Most states still have "stay at home" orders in place, so most of these are deemed "essential businesses" and that is the reason they're allowed to be open. If you're "essential" and have been allowed to make $$ during these shutdowns while huge numbers of other businesses who were forced to close have not you should not be able to refuse service to anyone. Most stores already have "senior" or "at risk" shopping hours that the rest of us aren't even allowed to enter a store now. There are ample opportunities for people to avoid the masses if they choose to do so. I have absolutely no problem with anyone who feels the need to wear a mask and chooses to do so. Yesterday I was in a grocery store and three people did have them on. I made sure to keep beyond the 6 foot distance from them as much as possible because I respect the fact that they're at risk, or feel they are at risk, so I give them more space. To me the mask is a sign that I'm concerned, give me space... which I respond to appropriately. I don't think it is fair to make everyone wear them though when by most estimates 1-3% of most state's populations are actually infected.

    This has become a fear game.. everybody is living in fear now instead of living. Georgia's governor was raked over the coals for opening things back up when he did. Yesterday was 15 days since their re-opening and 8 days since their restaurants opened. Their case totals have been on a steady downward trend since that time with no evidence of a spike because of the changes yet which should have started showing up in the numbers if there was going to be one. I think this proves that common sense goes a long way. If you take reasonable precautions we can safely return to a more open society... not a "normal" society- but one that we can actually live in again.
     
    steve053, peano, Rich and 2 others like this.
  9. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    35,509
    1,882
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    Even with the technology available all I hear from medical experts (you gotta believe someone) is it's gonna take a year to get to a vaccine that works. Every day I hear the same thing. If this lasts another year it's gonna be worse than the Great Depression. Hope I'm wrong, I do.

    Rich
     
  10. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    35,509
    1,882
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    We have to wait a while to see what happens in those states. I think it's a bit early to say anything about it one way or the other. Believe me, I hope you're right. And, I think you're right about that salon owner, glad to see she was released.

    Rich
     
    steve053 likes this.
  11. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

    5,208
    553
    Mar 4, 2006
    Herrin, IL
    I’m of a very mixed mind about all of this. Being elderly with underlying conditions that put me at a higher risk, I fully understand the hunker down stuff that has and is being done.

    But the pragmatist me knows that we can’t keep this up for as long as the medical experts would like without severely harming not only the country as a whole, but also all those businesses we depend on, large and small. The smaller, locally owned businesses are generally not profitable enough to survive this effect on business.

    So it seems that the best compromise solution is for those of us that know we are at higher risk need to keep restricting ourselves or realize if we don’t, we might regret it. Unfortunately the pessimist in me says that if we do that, when one of us in that situation gets the disease and either don’t survive it or have other horrible experience, that someone in their family will grab the nearest lawyer.
     
    cpalmer2k likes this.
  12. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    35,509
    1,882
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    Have you done the math about beaches and social distancing? You end up with a circle with a 6-foot radius around damn near every beach towel. Not the beach experience we're used to.

    Rich
     
  13. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    35,509
    1,882
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    I don't see how we can possibly do this for another year without destroying the economy. By next month the unemployment percentage will eclipse the Great Depression's percentage. Manufacturing seems to be slowing down, car sales must be way down. A balance has to be struck in some manner that allows the economy to come back to some semblance of what it was just a few months ago.

    Rich
     
    steve053 likes this.
  14. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

    5,208
    553
    Mar 4, 2006
    Herrin, IL
    You’re right. Our entire economy depends on people being out and about and spending money, it is very much consumer driven.

    I was thinking just about the grocery store the other day. I can and do use online ordering with delivery, and that certainly helps the grocer keep his door open. But if I were going to the store odds are that not only would I buy the things on my list, but I would also buy some things that aren’t that just happened to catch my eye. Impulse buying is a big part of the shopping experience and the stores do their best to encourage us to do that with product placement, ads and so forth. I wonder just how much of our buying and spending is those impulse buys?
     
  15. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    35,509
    1,882
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    That's so important and I don't see it mentioned very often. If folks can't or won't spend money freely soon we are gonna be in a lot of trouble. The millions of people who are/are gonna be unemployed won't be buying cars or trucks. That's important. A lot of companies in this country depend on car sales, Union Carbide certainly did. Car sales went down so did our bottom line, big time. I saw the governor of Ohio on CNN the other day and he was worried about spending and getting folks out there buying things. We have to spend.

    Rich
     
  16. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    24,918
    1,532
    Nov 13, 2006
    One of the hardest things with this is different areas are having different trends. From a quick glance.

    But from a deeper glance at numbers it appears to me that the biggest issue is density and people not being careful when they should.

    Wearing a mask when in stores where employees see tons of customers come and go all day seems smart to me. That mask may help make sure that one person who comes into the store and then leaves that has it and is asymptotic doesn’t spread it. Because if he gave it to an employee that one employee could spread it to all other customers way before he even knew he had it.

    In Pasadena one giant family ignored the rules in a huge way, one person in particular. Family got together for a birthday party. They had lots of family come over and did no social distancing or wearing masks. That alone is kinda iffy. But the real issue, one person showed up with a cough. Seriously? You are coughing and you show up and don’t wear a mask or social distance at all? At least five have already tested positive and several more are already sick and awaiting results. No one in that family believed in this is my guess. Now they no different.

    The good news is that they where able to trace this very quickly back to that party and could tell who was the index of the issue. That’s what we need to be able to have happen to open up again. Because that’s what will stop high speed spread and flare ups.

    I think it’s al about being responsible and understanding it’s a thing and being cautious. If people would respect that wearing a mask is for the good of the person near them as much as anything in any area with significant spread I think opening up will be easier.

    But then you have places like Idaho who had 25 new cases in the entire state the other day. I have a feeling they can just open up and run like normal if they can trace any cases fully very very fast. I can’t even see the need for masks there, and from what I understand they aren’t required anymore there.

    As far as beaches, one thing that has been noticed by Collin cowheard (sports radio guy) is the for some reason here in Los Angeles where we have a consistent problem of about the same number of new cases daily, the beach cities are not having many cases. It’s an odd thing... not sure what to make of that.

    I wonder if it’s because beach cities are usually a bit more dense and people are being a little more careful about distancing and such and is helping keeping it from becoming an issue.

    I think it’s clear social distancing and or masks in close proximity and in stores seems to work very well. That with a good contact tracing team in place could be the real solution in the short term.

    For hard hit areas a slow opening of things and a watchful eye to make sure things don’t get worse may prove this. The biggest issue is people who aren’t careful at all like that one guy who infected his Pasadena family. It’s those people that screw us all imho.
     
    steve053 likes this.
  17. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    35,509
    1,882
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    I gave up on having groceries delivered a few years ago. We tried Stop and Shop and got terrible vegetables, fruits, and meat. We go to the supermarkets in our area. Sad to see so many empty shelves.

    Rich
     
  18. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

    5,208
    553
    Mar 4, 2006
    Herrin, IL
    I live in a small town (about 12K) and the insta-cart shoppers that cover my local grocer have been very good. Don’t always get what I ordered but that’s not on the shopper, that’s on the store stock. And the shoppers that have done it for me always get me good stuff.

    Usually the same gal does my shopping ‘cause I tip good and she grabs my order when it goes through. But even when it wasn’t her I didn’t have a problem.
     
  19. cpalmer2k

    cpalmer2k New Member

    310
    37
    May 24, 2010
    I think you will find over time the impulse buys will increase. We’ve been doing Wal-Mart grocery pick up for a year now because they’re the only ones who do it in our area. Initially we stuck to a list but as time went on we found searching and scrolling the app was so easy we added impulse items we thought of or new products we never would have sought out in the store.
     
  20. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    35,509
    1,882
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    The powers that be should have made that a lot clearer right off the bat. The protection isn't for the wearer primarily, it's for the people near the wearer of the mask.

    Rich
     
    steve053 likes this.

Share This Page

spam firewall