The Official DIRECTV HD TiVo Anticipation Thread - Q4 2009 Edition

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Sep 23, 2009.

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  1. Nov 2, 2009 #201 of 810
    Tom Robertson

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    My sense, purely from the public documents, is the monthly fees will be more than for the HR2x family, and I'm expecting it to be less than the Stand Alone TiVo fees. While I don't have a sense of what the number will be, at least that might give us a range.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  2. Nov 3, 2009 #202 of 810
    kiljoy

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    I tend to agree with sbl, it's not something that TiVoHD can't do with its HD content, I can't see why DirecTV would have a problem with it in their implementation.

    To throw a bone to the DirecTV DVR fans, they do have a point. Slapping on the TiVo name and stripping out everything that makes a TiVo cool will not make anyone want to pay more for a TiVo. While DirecTV did this in the past (and I know that there is dispute over whose side it was that prevented the good S2 stuff from coming to the DirecTiVos) I'm sure that both sides now understand the importance of adding value alongside the higher price. Stuff like Netflix I can kind of understand being left out (though not really as I doubt Netflix subs really would use DirecTV On Demand any more or less if Netflix is in the box as there isn't a lot of overlap between the two services), and Amazon VOD is certainly a no-go in my opinion. I think it's likely there will be changes to TiVo's streaming between boxes to make it work with existing DirecTV hardware, but TiVo2Go should be among the priorities in features that come with the new box.

    They've apparently already said KidZone will be included, but really that plus a TiVo UI is not enough differentiation.

    Tony
     
  3. Nov 3, 2009 #203 of 810
    bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    But the die hard Tivoites think it is. To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies. :)
     
  4. Nov 3, 2009 #204 of 810
    CorpITGuy

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    DRM is maintained, but you can still burn to DVD, convert to iPhone/iTunes, etc.

    It's just like iTunes music/movies with DRM.

    And, it works fine with my standalone Series 2 TiVO that I have hooked up to a D12 receiver. No hacking necessary. Nothing illegal about it. :) I do worry, though, that D*'s deals with content providers aren't very good, as TiVO does not require those same deals to sell a third party DVR for cable TV service.
     
  5. Nov 3, 2009 #205 of 810
    kiljoy

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    As a die-hard Tivotee, the TiVo UI is enough for me and is what makes the difference, but I'm not under the illusion that it can carry the day for everyone or that it even should.

    Apple's iPod is about the only exception to the rule that you have to do more than offer a brand and a tight UI to charge more for something but its competitors aren't giving away their products.

    Tony
     
  6. Nov 3, 2009 #206 of 810
    Syzygy

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    It's insulting to call those of us who miss having a functional DVR "die hard Tivoites."

    Here's a partial list of my outstanding issues with my HR21. All of them seem to me to be UI problems. None of them are problems on my HR10.

    • Series Links are limited to 50.
    • Keyword Autorecord SLs that specify "First Run Only" record reruns too.
    • Press-and-hold functions work only sometimes; when they work, they take way too long to engage; and they sometimes engage when you don't want them to.
    • Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.
    • Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.
    • Search-result lists refresh themselves for no reason, and sometimes restart from the beginning.
    • Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days.
    • Autocorrection after FF (and Pause!) goes way too far backwards.
    • In general, menus and lists don't remember where you were; and there's no way to go quickly to the top or bottom of a list.
    • Too many keypresses are required to get to the To Do List, the Prioritizer, and Manual recording.
     
  7. Nov 3, 2009 #207 of 810
    kiljoy

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    I'd answer that by saying that for some the improved featureset over prior TiVo implementations overcomes what they feel are minor inconveniences that are natural to migrating to a different platform.

    I don't like most of the stuff your list either and I think TiVo's UI is wonderful, but I can see where some would rather have something different.

    And it's "TiVotees", like "devotees".

    Tony
     
  8. Nov 3, 2009 #208 of 810
    Steve

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    I agree that all Joe Sixpack wants to do is record and playback, but I disagree that the UI doesn't matter to him. The less technically sophisticated the user, the more intuitive the UI needs to be. I'm basing this on many years of application development feedback that I've observed.
     
  9. Nov 3, 2009 #209 of 810
    ATARI

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    What about TiVoter?

    Would that be like Trekkie vs. Trekker?
     
  10. Nov 3, 2009 #210 of 810
    Stuart Sweet

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    I'm not sure what non-derogatory term to use for TiVo afficionados. Most of the terms I hear are sort of negative.
     
  11. Nov 3, 2009 #211 of 810
    harsh

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    A connection between a D12 and a SD TiVo isn't a concern as you're stepping outside the digital domain in sending the content using a non-digital connection between the two devices.

    A TiVo enabled satellite receiver is an entirely different can of worms as it affords a 100% faithful digital copy of the content. The principles of the "analog hole" do not apply inside a satellite DVR.
     
  12. Nov 3, 2009 #212 of 810
    harsh

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    I often suggest (and use myself) "TiVotees"?

    note: "TiVotees" first appeared on DBSTalk in a post by raj2001 in March of 2003.
     
  13. Nov 3, 2009 #213 of 810
    Doug Brott

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  14. Nov 3, 2009 #214 of 810
    mp11

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    I think that if people who are waiting for this Tivo go into this with eyes wide open, expecting only a fraction of the features in the standalone Tivo...they wont be too disappointed.
     
  15. Nov 4, 2009 #215 of 810
    gregjones

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    I will be glad to respond item by item.

    Yes, this was a bone-headed design flaw. I have yet to run into it as a problem myself but I can see where it would be an issue for some. DirecTV's fault.
    I have no experience with this one but I can see where it would be annoying. I tend to use autorecord only for movies or sporting events, so it would not apply for me. There might be a keyword that would help with this.
    Press and hold was a stupid idea. It rarely works. I pretend the unit can't do slow-motion because it never works out correctly.
    You need to read up on how to do keyword searches that don't include these. Adding NNOT PPV does wonders to most keyword searches.
    Like above, use the CCHAN keyword in your search.
    This is what happens when a time slot is crossed as you view the results. It is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour. As the hour passes, not all of the shows are still available as results and it updates the list.
    This is because the guide data is not always available that far in advance. Look for a show that is two weeks out. It will likely have no data even though the guide goes that far. It is hard to search for data that is not yet present.
    Blame TiVo. They hold a patent on the autocorrection.
    This is not a bug but a preference.


    There are some items there that warrant complaining. I agree. It is all a matter of perspective. The 50 series limit, press and hold and Channels I Get are areas where TiVo has a clear advantage. Personally, those impact me less than the HDMI issues, lockups and slowness from the HR10.

    It is just as wrong to say the TiVos were useless as it is to claim the HR2x DVRs are. I always pick the product that presents the most value to me. I've owned both and have no devotion to either. Currently, the HR2x presents the best value for me. I will be surprised if the new offering presents enough advantages to outweigh the additional cost and irritation of changing, but I will watch closely.
     
  16. Nov 4, 2009 #216 of 810
    Syzygy

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    Thanks for responding at length, and for agreeing with those points with which only a D* fanatic might disagree. I feel compelled to argue about some of your responses, though.

    • Adding NNOT PPV does wonders to most keyword searches.
    I don't want to do that for one-off searches, nor should anyone have to do it. (And NNOT VOD has no effect.)

    • Use the CCHAN keyword in your search.
    I do use CCHAN for Autorecording, but it's not useful when you're just looking for, say, certain kinds of movies.

    • [Search results refreshing] is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour.
    No. It does happen at random times.

    • [Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days] because the guide data is not always available.
    No. Sometimes search results are truncated even when there are 11 days' worth of Guide data.

    • Blame TiVo [if autocorrection goes too far backwards]. They hold [the] patent.
    TiVo gets autocorrection right; and DirecTV has rights to all of TiVo's patents. (And I think there may be no TiVo patent on autocorrection.)

    • ...HDMI issues, lockups and slowness from the HR10.
    What HDMI issues? Yes, I agree that our HR10 locks up or requires restarting every couple of months. Slowness? Even after the great improvements in 0x0368, my HR21 is still slower than my HR10.

    Finally, I've never claimed the HR2x DVRs are useless -- just not up to the useability standards long established by TiVo, ReplayTV and Ultimate TV.
     
  17. Nov 4, 2009 #217 of 810
    gregjones

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    There is a significant difference in DirecTV not being able to do something and you not liking the way it is done.

    It is not random. Thanks to the voodoo program directors of many broadcast and cable networks, many shows start at 1 before the hour, 35 after the hour and everywhere in between. This happens because some show in the list is no longer available. It is irritating, but not random.

    TiVo has not given permission for anyone else to use a number of their pieces of intellectual property, including but not limited to the following: autocorrection for fast forward, the term Wishlist, the term Season Pass. DirecTV has a licensing agreement with TiVo. TiVo did not convey all of their intellectual property in that agreement and it has never been assumed they did.


    The HDMI failures on the HR10 were very well documented.

    It is not up to your subjective usability standards. The HR10 was not up to the usability standards of the SD DirecTiVo units according to many customers. We all have opinions. I am discussing facts.
     
  18. Nov 4, 2009 #218 of 810
    Stuart Sweet

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    Folks, this is not an HR10 vs. HR20 thread. Syzygy has started several of those. Let's get back to anticipating the upcoming TiVo device, which I anticipate I won't see in person for quite some time.
     
  19. Nov 4, 2009 #219 of 810
    Syzygy

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    I believe you're referring, at least in part, to these two points of mine:

    • Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.
    • Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.

    It's because the marketing people rule the roost at DirecTV that we have to put up with the intentional and often unavoidable pollution of search results with shows they want to sell. It's disingenuous to pretend that my objection to this pollution is simply me (and me alone) "not liking the way it is done."

    I'm sorry to have to say it, but statements like that (defending the indefensible) put you firmly in the camp of D* fanatics. I'm through.
     
  20. Nov 4, 2009 #220 of 810
    psweig

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    "This is what happens when a time slot is crossed as you view the results. It is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour. As the hour passes, not all of the shows are still available as results and it updates the list."

    GregJones, I can't thank you enough (bow, bow) for this explnation. I have been suffering for 4 years with this problem. No matter how many times I have complained about it, there has been no resolution. I will try to time my long searches a little bit after the hour. :)
     
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