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The official "More HD in 2009" thread

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Programming' started by Stuart Sweet, Dec 15, 2008.

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  1. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

    Sep 28, 2006
    Didn't someone (Sixto?) recently post some FCC documents related to new or changed uplink centers for Ka? I may well be totally out to lunch here and conflating different bits of information, but I think I recall seeing something along those lines.
  2. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    yep. in the d12 thread. new uplink with different characteristics. maybe i should go read through that again. :)
  3. juventuz

    juventuz Legend

    Oct 15, 2007
    Why would I watch it on tv when I can watch it live, for free by simply stepping out onto my lawn.

    Winston Churchill said it best...
  4. rkr0923

    rkr0923 Guest

    Sep 14, 2006
    What does all this blah blah blah FEC for 8PSK than QPSK, have to do with "More HD in 2009" thread?????????
    Take that crap elsewhere.
  5. Jeremy W

    Jeremy W Hall Of Fame

    Jun 19, 2006
    It has to do with the feasibility of getting more HD in 2009, so it's very appropriate for this thread.
  6. Tom Servo

    Tom Servo Icon

    Mar 7, 2007
    I think it's quite relevant to the folks who are familiar with lossy compression systems, and it'll help us figure out if there can even be an argument for more HD. Can't argue for more if there's not any room, right?

    It seems by the calculations, we have room for anywhere from 1-3 more HD channels based on the current setup.

    Anyway it's a wholesome break from the “I want Travel Channel HD” posts… (Did I mention I want the Travel Channel HD? :lol:)
  7. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

    Sep 28, 2006
    AMEN!!!! :rolleyes:
  8. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Jan 24, 2007
    I believe it relates to the ability to add and quantity of HD channels.

    I think it's pretty relavent.....I've been known to be wrong. :grin:

  9. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    I'd love to see a thread with all the FEC, 8PSK, QPSK, and technical stuff.

    Understand what they're using now, what the alternatives are, could they actually switch, and what would it require on the ground, in space, and at the receiver.
  10. evan_s

    evan_s Hall Of Fame

    Mar 3, 2008
    This is all very interesting. The only reason I can think of why 8psk would require higher power than Qpsk would be because they need to run the Conus Tps "hotter" to maintain a good enough SNR. The sats as I understand it are pretty much passive devices just receiving a signal and amplifying it and rebroadcasting it with out doing any processing on it. Considering they were running D10 at 16 conus transponders instead of 14 for a while needed the additional bandwidth then. Using the conservative estimate they would need to run 5 tps at 8psk instead of qpsk for the same amount of additional channels. They would be able to run each of those 5 tps at 20% more power than their existing level and still be at the same power budget over all since they weren't running an additional TP anymore. That would sure seem to be a fair amount of extra power available to overcome any SNR problems.

    Clearly our receivers are capable of handling 8psk since they are using it on the spots. Of corse it is easier to run the spots hotter and that does generally match up with readings posted by most people with spots often being a few points higher than conus channels.

    I think it may all come back to power budget on the sats. Looking at d10/11/12 they do seem to be in kinda fall into an odd middle ground. At 101 DirecTV has 3 stats providing the Ku Conus and spot beams (and some Ka backhaulling). At 110/119 DirecTV only has a single sat but they are providing a fairly limited number of TPs. D10 and D11 currently have an entire slot to themselves and they don't seem to do a very good job of maxing it out (running at lower power using qpsk apparently) and using 10 tps for spot beams(101 has 5? and 119 has 3? tps for spots). At the same time how ever trying to put 2 sats at the same slot ends up with things really crowded with the capacity for 28 conus tps + lots of spots but only 24 tps to use. When it was launched D10 was one of the largest sats launched to date and since the power comes from the solar cells it isn't easy to just add more to the power budget.

    Since the latest rumor is that d12 is going to somewhere near 103 I'm guessing it's going to be configured for Ka Hi and spaceway 1 will be moved from 103 to 99. Since the spaceways are only providing spots and they are very configurable it shouldn't be a problem to have both of them at one spot. This lets them use D12 to it's full potential also but I expect it to be the same level that d10/d11 are now. Assuming that is true I expect the replacement sats for d10/11/12 to have a larger power budget and probably shift to 16 or 18 conus transponders and start using 8psk providing moderate boost in capacity when replacing the existing sats.
  11. woj027

    woj027 Icon

    Sep 3, 2007
    Portland, OR
    I wonder just how often the DirecTV Enginners, and other "smart folks" "in the know" read what is posted here and contemplate offering some of you posters jobs.

    that or they are amazed how spot on you are, or completely off base.

    Either way, I can feel confident that although I don't know much about all these different technologies, I know a lot more than before I ever visited this site.
  12. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    A wise man once told me he really, really wanted to post here but could not. Over time he realized how often this group does eventually (and usually quickly) get the right answer even without input from "official, unnamed sources". :)

    Now they do laugh a lot along the way at some of what gets said... :) So we do provide entertainment for more than just ourselves. :)
  13. Mr D

    Mr D Legend

    Oct 22, 2008
    Guys forget about the travel channel HD i just got a message back from directv and the representative said they have no plan now to carry that channel, but that there will be some new additions sooner than expected
  14. mx6bfast

    mx6bfast Hall Of Fame

    Nov 8, 2006
    Eh, don't believe that person.
  15. Paul A

    Paul A Godfather

    Jul 12, 2007
    It's filler until we start a new thread named "The official "More HD in 2010" thread" :grin:
  16. loudo

    loudo Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    Central Maine
    Sounds like you got the canned message, that they have been sending out for the past year.
  17. Artwood

    Artwood Legend

    May 29, 2006
    Will Chillers HD look as bad as the current Chillers?

    Why does Chillers have the worst picture quality of any channel?

    I think standard VHS even looks better than Chillers!
  18. QuickDrop

    QuickDrop Hall Of Fame

    Jul 20, 2007
    I suspect Chiller's bandwidth is being squeezed two ways. First, by NBC Universal, then by D*. Currently, given it's widespread lack of placement on cable systems, it's as though both feel we should be lucky the channel exists at all.

    On a related note, outside of ESPNU and The Travel Channel, this often seems to be the most requested HD channel here. Is that just the nature of this forum or is Chiller really that popular compared to other channels?
  19. jpl

    jpl Hall Of Fame

    Jul 9, 2006
    NBC has to be squeezing it pretty badly at the source - we have the channel on FiOS. Verizon doesn't do any additional compression and Chiller is one of the lesser impressive channels that we get. It's gotten marginally better recently, for some reason, but it's still pretty crappy. If DirecTV is compressing it, it's not doing it by much.
  20. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    Seems possible that we'll see at least 1 new 24x7 HD channel on Wednesday at 6am to replace PPV HD 134. This is based on the continued "to be announced" for PPV HD 134 starting Wednesday at 6am.

    Also possible for another to replace PPV HD 145, but the HR2x guide data is not as convincing as the online guide data.

    Satellite stream data does not (yet) show any hint of anything new.

    Based on previous info, it seems likely that if there are new channels that they will be 24x7 RSN's prior to baseball season.

    We wait ...
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