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The Penn State Scandal

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Lord Vader, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    I've heard some say that this is worse than the "death penalty." That I don't understand. From what I understand, the death penalty is not permanent, and it shouldn't be. But how is this worse than no football for 4 years, $60 million in fines and vacating wins?

    I generally don't follow these things, but I'm assuming vacating wins has no effect on players and their stats if that is important for professional eligibility?

    They have also received some punishments from the Big 10 as well.
     
  2. RasputinAXP

    RasputinAXP Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

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    Vacating scholarships, too.
     
  3. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I really did not see a point to the vacating of victories as the infractions did not 'affect' the outcome of the game itself. When we come down to it, Penn State is only vacating these games on paper. The NCAA has the power to reinstate those victories anytime they wish.
     
  4. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    As I understand it, they are only vacating a portion of the scholarships not all of them.
     
  5. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There are multiple angles here.

    Is the punishment just? Probably not.

    Do I feel sorry for Penn St? Not really.

    I get why the NCAA wants to do this... but largely it is about PR... If the university or the NCAA actually cared about the victims, this kind of thing wouldn't be allowed to happen.

    As some pointed out on TV yesterday... it is hypocritical of the NCAA to punish Penn St for letting their football be out of control in running the institution when the NCAA itself benefits and encourages such things to a degree.

    In a perfect world, we could extract all those involved in the cover up and punish them in some way. There are a lot of people on the campus (students and employees) who had nothing to do with any of this... and they will be punished as well.

    Another side-punishment... for those students who do choose to leave and play football on scholarship at another university... the NCAA and Penn St has said they can do that without penalty, which is good... BUT anyone who does that essentially takes away a scholarship from that university that otherwise would have gone to another kid... and thus, that kid at that other university gets punished and he wasn't even at Penn St at all.

    Like a lot of scandals, the principal players in the cover-up somehow manage to escape a lot of the punishment. That's why I'm also torn.

    Also, the vacating wins thing. I never get that. First, it isn't like those wins didn't happen. People watched those games... other teams lost... it affected the bowl selections those years... maybe someone else would have been in the championship game if Penn St had lost those games for real... so it does no tangible good to take away wins in the record book.

    It also punishes players on those teams who had nothing to do with any of this.
     
  6. Richierich

    Richierich Hall Of Fame

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    Why would Players want to go there if they can't play for a Bowl Game?

    This is pretty close to a Death Penalty!!! And they deserve it for turning a blind eye to this abuse by this Pathetic Serial Pedophile!!!

    What were they thinking? Penn State's Reputation and Football Program are more important than doing the right thing and preventing other boys in the future from being abused sexually by this Monster!!!
     
  7. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    I disagree completely with the NCAA's decision.

    $60 million fine? That's fine and I can agree with it, but the money should be earmarked specifically for the victims, not random support groups.

    Just about everything else is nonsense. Reducing scholorships and the inability to play in post-season games benefits nobody. Does it benefit the victims? No.

    All it does is continue to harm more innocent people. The 3 year player who had nothing to do with this, but now cannot play in a bowl game his senior year. The Junior in High School who's dreamed of playing for Penn State his whole life, but now has to decide if never going to a bowl game is worth it or going somewhere else. The myriad of businesses that lose out on revenue due to the reduced schedule and what will surely be a terrible team for the next 10 years.

    If they wanted to do something positive, why not just let them play as normal, but all proceeds from post season tournaments go toward the victims?

    JoPa is dead and Sandusky will die in prison. Many lawsuits will come that will make PSU pay even more millions of dollars - which they should.

    But it's not about the football team, and I strongly disagree with the decision to continue to penalize/hurt innocent people just to make a stand.

    The voiding of victories? I can certainly see both sides of it, but what good does it really do? Did what happened have anything to do with JoPa's ability to coach? Does it help that all of those players, that had nothing to do with it, now have zero wins for their college careers? Is Bowden deserving of having the most wins in the BCS? Is he a better coach than JoPa? I can certainly see the argument that he's a better person, but better coach? Did they remove all of the Reds wins when Rose got busted? Did they take away any of his hits? One has nothing to do with the other.

    I realize some will say I'm a PSu apologist or something, but that's not true. What they did was heinous and they need to be punished. But many of the wrong people got punished/hurt by this decision.
     
  8. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    I don't think they went far enough. This didn't stop at Paterno and Sandusky. This went all the way to the top. Some of the rest of should have been arrested, and still should be.

    The football program should be shut down permanently so they have to focus on academics which is why they're there to begin with.
     
  9. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The path to the top has been fired and will be in court facing their own trials soon enough.

    They probably should do that at all of the top schools. It has been a while since academics have been more important than athletics at any school that was good at athletics.

    If the world wants to erase the past 14 years as if it never happened perhaps Penn State should return all the money given to them BECAUSE they had a football team. Refund all the tickets sold for vacated games.

    At best these punishments are a sybolic gesture ... at worst it is a gesture made up of a single finger (and not the one raised on Joe's statue). That gesture pointed at anyone associated with Penn State ... even those who never attended a football game and didn't care if the school had a team.
     
  10. Richierich

    Richierich Hall Of Fame

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    +1

    There should be a Clear Message that this Abhorent Behavior will not Ever Be Tolarated regardless of the circumstances (IE. Penn State Profiting if it was not admitted publicly),

    How could Educated University Admistrators turn their backs on Victims and Potential Victims in order to perpetutate a Very Lucrative Football Probram is beside me and millions of Americans!!!

    Shame on you Joe Paterno!!! :nono2::nono2::nono2:
     
  11. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    I can see the NCAAs fine going to a general group. We haven't seen the end of this, this fine will pale in comparison to the civil lawsuits, brought by the families and victims.
     
  12. Richierich

    Richierich Hall Of Fame

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    What I can't understand is why Coach Joe Paterno didn't have the guts to say to the President that this needs to be reported to the Police?

    I guess he was naive or turning his head to the real fact that his assistant coach was indeed doing what witnesses said was happening.
     
  13. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Thing is... and I'm not crying over the Penn St penalties... but, where else would these kinds of punishments even be legal?

    Imagine instead of a football team at a college... imagine that Sandusky was a high-level assistant manager at a corporation, Joe Paterno was a manager... and so forth... and that Sandusky brought kids into work and abused them... and someone told his manager "Paterno" and he ran it up to the CEO.

    Now... Paterno, and the CEO and others probably get fired from the company once the scandal hits... and possibly the company gets hit with a fine and maybe some lawsuits... but would the company be in any danger of being shut down? OR not being allowed to sell their product? OR employees encouraged to leave and find work elsewhere or else some of their benefits would be taken away for several years?

    That's the disconnect, to me, in punishing the university and those that remain for the serious transgressions of people who no longer are at the university.

    The fines and some sanctions and a watchful eye to see that they actually implement changes to prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again... I get that... and while the punishment to others pales in comparison to what the victims of Sandusky suffered (and still suffer)... we don't usually punish random tangential people.

    The guy in Florida under arrest for killing Trayvon Martin, for example... they haven't roped off the whole gated community and instituted punishments that affect others in the neighborhood, right?

    I just can't think of other scenarios where a large group of unrelated people get painted with the same brush and punished in the way that Penn St current students and faculty are going to be punished.
     
  14. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    I can't think of too many places where it went on for as long as this did, or where as many people knew about it and did nothing.

    Maybe Enron or some of the other banking and financial scandals.

    And if the students and faculty focus on the reasons they're in college, they shouldn't 'suffer' at all.
     
  15. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Fully agree.

    Fully disagree. While Paterno was the Coach of the football team, it really doesn't have anything to do with the football program.

    If it was a Math Tutor and the Head of Mathematics didn't report it, should the school lose all math programs? Students for the next 4 years couldn't take math classes? Absolutely not, that doesn't even make sense. But that's in essence what's happened here.
     
  16. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Do you think the only factor in choosing a college is the education? There's many factors. If there weren't, nobody would visit colleges in highschool, they'd just look at the one that provided the best education in their prospective major on paper. But it doesn't work that way. Many students go to college to get an education AND play sports, or be in the band, or be a part of student government, or because of the social life, or the size of the campus, or the types of dorms, or many other reasons. So, if this decision impacts any of those other attributes that resulted in a student choosing Penn State, then they are "suffering" the consequences through no fault of their own.

    Yes, they could transfer (athletes and non-athletes), but that's easier said than done, especially if there's scholorships involved. Not to mention abandoning the relationships they've developed and the costs involved.
     
  17. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    It should be.
     
  18. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    I know some think that when you're in college, if you're not in class you should be studying or working and not have time for another activities, but if you do that for 4+ years, you burn out. Plus there just aren't enough scholarships and such to go around based solely on academics. There have been plenty of productive members of society that got into college on a sports scholarship, and not by going into professional sports.

    My grandmother was one that thought for every hour in class, there should be a minimum of 2 hours studying, 7 days a week. Schedules like that just aren't sustainable. Besides, there are valuable lessons in team sports. I've heard of some elementary schools get rid of any recess, because there's no educational value for the tests. There are valuable social skills etc learned. Same in college, teamwork, strategy etc.
     
  19. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Wow, really?

    So, if school A has a slightly better education but the dorms are filthy and the campus is just miles of concrete you'd rather go there than school B that has plush dorms and a beautiful campus with trees and wildlife (for example)?

    College is an experience. If you go just for the education, you're missing out on a whole lot.
     
  20. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    A college with a top-notch academic program is not going to have substandard facilities.
     
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