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The Penn State Scandal

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Lord Vader, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. Nov 8, 2011 #41 of 369
    The Merg

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    My point was actually that the people that witnessed the events never reported this to the police. They only reported it to the school. If they are so concerned with a child's well-being, call the police and report that you see a child being assaulted. In the second instance, JoePa was supposedly informed and he in turn informed his superiors of the reported incident.

    Should he had followed up to see what happened with the report? Maybe. Considering his high moral standards that he holds himself to, maybe he should have. But at the same time, you need to have faith that when you go to your boss with information that an employee is acting inappropriately, appropriate action will be taken.

    Also, according to the reports, JoePa heard about the 2002 incident at least third hand. He reported that to his superiors. In many ways, what else is he supposed to do? I don't think in a situation like that he is even in a position to do anything other than tell his superiors. The accused in question was not even an employee anymore and had been given permission by the University to use the facilities.

    I would think that if I was told something third hand about a crime being committed I would probably assume that it had already been reported to the police. And who am I, if I see that person walking around months or years later, to go up and accuse them of something that I had only heard third hand.

    - Merg
     
  2. Nov 8, 2011 #42 of 369
    photostudent

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    I read some of the unsavory details of this investigation today. Collateral damage or not, I would measure Paterno's tenure in hours, not days or weeks.
     
  3. Nov 9, 2011 #43 of 369
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Let's separate a few reactions and emotions here for a second...

    IF *I* were JoePa, I would have done more. I would have followed up, asked questions, and if I felt it wasn't getting proper attention I would have called the police.

    IF *I* were a parent of one of the abused kids, I would want all of these people strung up by their toes.

    But I'm not a parent of an abused child... and I'm not JoePa... so I have to take a step back... and not over-condemn him for not doing what you or I would do if the same thing happened to us.

    Also... I find an interesting contrast here in the reactions of people to this story vs another story this summer. I am going to make some people mad here, but so be it...

    I remember when discussing bullying of children, even bullying by an older larger child... there was a large faction of people who thought kids should deal with bullies themselves, that they shouldn't run to the police, and that bullying might be "good" for them in preparing them to deal with unfair things in life.

    I remember arguing then how it seemed odd to not help defend kids who could not defend themselves... and odd not to involve police when a kid was being beaten and injured...

    What I find curious... is that there are people wanting to string up Joe Paterno for not going to the police for something he himself didn't witness... but those same people would argue that the same Joe Paterno who witnessed a fight between a bully and a younger/smaller kid should do nothing, not interfere, and let the kid handle himself.

    I scratch my head at the thought that kids are expected to suffer some abuses, and others create such a stir that even tangentially related people are held accountable.
     
  4. Nov 9, 2011 #44 of 369
    Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    As a teacher, I can't believe ANYone would be so stupid to suggest kids could handle bullying on their own or to suggest what you stated above.
     
  5. Nov 9, 2011 #45 of 369
    phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I guess I think the criminal justice system is handling this, perhaps way too late, but it is.

    Regarding Paterno doing more than telling Athletic Director Tim Curley the next day about the one incident, I think people forget the fact I pointed out earlier.
    Paterno joined his college coach Rip Engle as an assistant coach at Penn State in 1950. Things like this weren't handled with clear, rapid legal action back in the 1950's.

    Paterno has been involved in several controversial scandals including being forced to apologize for a profanity-laced tirade directed at then Rutgers head coach Doug Graber at the conclusion of a nationally televised game in 1995, being accused of "making light of sexual assault" in 2006 by the National Organization for Women which called for his resignation, and being involved in a road rage incident in 2007.

    He should have been retired in 1995, if not before. But he got a huge contract renewal in 2008 as there's big money in football and he delivers what every other American home has on its TV regularly each week - highly paid sports. The real problem is there's big money in football and that's because of fans. Given the choice between the teams that generated the following from Wikipedia and having a coach who might have done something different beyond meeting the letter of the law, I know what the rabid Penn State fans would have said:
    If you think these things aren't more important than morality to rabid football fans, keep in mind this from Wikipedia:
    Penn State is a state college. If ethics and morality mattered more than winning, Paterno wouldn't have been given that three year contract renewal in 2008.

    Sometimes as a people we need to quit looking askance at others and look in the mirror.
     
  6. Nov 9, 2011 #46 of 369
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Did you read the thread we had here regarding bullying and involving police?

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=196307

    I was surprised at how split the conversation was, and how many advocated what I said here in the post you replied to.

    It baffled me, but there you go. That's why I brought it into this discussion because it seemed odd to me.

    I'll be clear though... I'm not equating bullying and molestation... I think if you are a victim of either, you would be hard pressed to say you "wish" you were a victim of the other instead of what you suffered.

    But what I was equating was the reaction.

    In this thread, we have people wanting the resignation of a guy who didn't witness anything, but was told something by a person who witnessed something.

    In the other thread, we had people advocating that some people actually ignore witnessing something, because it might teach the kid something.

    That's what struck me as a very odd difference in public reaction.
     
  7. Nov 9, 2011 #47 of 369
    wilbur_the_goose

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    I'm a citizen if Pennsylvania and I'm disgusted. I'm actually calling my state rep and state senator's offices today to demand the immediate dismissal of Paterno and the Penn State president.

    This is one of the few things in life that's not forgivable. You just can't harm kids this way. There's a special place in Hades for people that abuse and allow abuse to continue.
     
  8. Nov 9, 2011 #48 of 369
    The Merg

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    See that was my point. According to what has been published about JoePa's knowledge and role, why should he get fired? When he learned of an incident, the person was not an employee and he learned of it at least third hand. He told his superior that someone had reported to him inappropriate behavior.

    As for the superior's actions, I can see action being taken. As the AD, they needed to follow up and see what happened in their facilities. After talking with the witnesses, the police should have been notified, which the AD did not do.

    - Merg
     
  9. Nov 9, 2011 #49 of 369
    Joe Bernardi

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    I don't feel bad for McCreary at all. Supposedly he was 28, 6'4" and saw the anal rape. He should have done something to stop it immediately, then reported it immediately.
     
  10. Nov 9, 2011 #50 of 369
    MysteryMan

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    Exactly. There are people who I served in combat with who are closer to me then any blood relative. We literally put our lives in each others hands and would do so again. But I draw the line with child abuse. If I were to witness such a act the friendship ends, my back is turned. I would put a stop to it immediately and report it immediately.
     
  11. Nov 9, 2011 #51 of 369
    Rasterburn

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    You know I find this all a little insane. We dont know what we dont know, and we usually think more is actually true. It wasnt long ago, when if I remember correctly, that 4 Duke lacrosse players had sexually abused a female student. All the news channels and people out there rushed to blame the 4 players based on what the media assured us was the truth and we what we thought to be the truth. then after months of us asking for their heads on a spike, it turns out their innocent and everything we thought was the truth wasnt. Now we have a little information, and we have people jumping to conclusions. Comparing Paterno to the german people in the Nazi era is just wrong. He is nothing like them, and the person who said it is practicing "Mccarthyism", which is hardly a worthy trait. Before we all rush to a conclusion from what little information that has come to light in the last 4 days we should step back and wait for all the information to come out. It is more of a tragedy that we continously jump to conclusions without all of the facts!
     
  12. Nov 9, 2011 #52 of 369
    scooper

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    The Duke Lacrosse incident was something different (I live in the area).

    Just in - Coach Paterno is retiring at the end of the season.
     
  13. Nov 9, 2011 #53 of 369
    Rasterburn

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    My point was is that what "we" thought when the story first broke was not what was actually true when the story ended!
     
  14. Nov 9, 2011 #54 of 369
    Carl Spock

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    In this case, Sandusky has supposedly confessed to at least the 1998 incident. I think the two cases are different.

    What is very appropriate in your post, Rasterburn, is that a cooling off period would be best right now This scandal has burned white hot the past few days. Perspective would do everyone some good. Sandusky won't harm anybody else at this point.
     
  15. Nov 9, 2011 #55 of 369
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    The whole situation is a combination of deplorable, disgusting, and sad.

    It's easy to second guess Paterno's actions (or anyone else for that matter) many years later. I'm not at all a Penn State fan or enemy - neutral only.

    Rather than take anyone's "side" on this...I can only say that the entire series of events is disheartening.

    Now that he's retiring at the end of this season, the only further punishment left for him seems to be accelerating his retirement sooner by Penn State.
     
  16. Nov 9, 2011 #56 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    This is why his retiring at the end of the season is a total copout and gutless act by the university. Once again we have a guy who is put above the law, above what is right.

    Either JoePa should stay and be left alone, or he should go. If the latter, then it must be now, not later; not at the end of the season. Ridiculous.
     
  17. Nov 9, 2011 #57 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    Dan Bernstein, one of 670 The Score's afternoon hosts (1:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. CST daily) is on now explaining how he's literally seething with anger at Paterno, especially in light of JoePa's bullying comments toward the Board of Trustees.

    You can listen live to Boers & Bernstein on The Score via the Internet. Go to www.670thescore.com
     
  18. Nov 9, 2011 #58 of 369
    Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    NEW RULE: No one is allowed to comment on this scandal here unless you have read in its entirety the grand jury indictment and everything that was alleged to have occurred. The document is attached in my original post at the beginning of this thread.

    Anyone commenting on this scandal who has not read it really shouldn't be forming any opinions like the ignorant asses who protested on JoePa's lawn in support of him yesterday.
     
  19. Nov 9, 2011 #59 of 369
    The Merg

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    Well, I re-read it and I still don't see how JoePa is the enemy here. A grad student sees a child being sodomized. He calls his dad and goes home. He goes the next day at his father's urging to JoePa and reports that he saw inappropriate behavior. JoePa then reports it to his superiors as he is supposed to do. The fact that the superiors did not follow the law and report it to the police is not JoePa's fault. I know if a teacher sees evidence of an inappropriate sexual incident, they will report it to an administrator, who in then is required to report it to the police. There is no difference here.

    Once again, why didn't the grad student call the police? I'm sorry, but if I see a child being assaulted I'm going to do something or call the police. Even if the grad student didn't take immediate personal action, he knew who the suspect was and could easily report it. Instead, he called his dad. And then his dad didn't even advise him to call the police.

    With all that being said, considering the bar JoePa sets for those around him morally, should he have done more? Very possibly. But JoePa did nothing illegal and met his legal obligations.

    Even if he followed up with the AD, JoePa would have been told that Sandusky was now prohibited from using the facilities with Second Mile kids. As for if criminal charges were filed, JoePa would not have been privy to that as it was a case that did not involve him or any of his employees or students.

    - Merg
     
  20. Nov 9, 2011 #60 of 369
    JACKIEGAGA

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    That grad student should of smashed Jerry Sandusky head against the tile wall.
     
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