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The Penn State Scandal

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Lord Vader, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    But make sure you do it from a payphone, and don't leave any fingerprints...on the phone or on the coins.
     
  2. Sharkie_Fan

    Sharkie_Fan Hall Of Fame

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    That's a slippery, slippery slope. Are battered women who don't intervene in the abuse of their child also accomplices? Are the children themselves accomplices because they didn't fight back? Are witnesses to a drive by shooting accomplices because they didn't chase down the driver of the car?

    In the courts - both criminal and civil - I don't believe you can hold a person responsible for seeing a crime and not physically intervening. Obviously in the court of public opinion, McQueary will forever be responsible for what the public perceives as a lack of action... but I don't see him facing any law suits - criminal or civil - for his part in this whole story.
     
  3. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    I'm not so sure. I know some states have Good Samaritan laws where some people can be held accountable for not acting, but I don't what all the conditions are.


    Possibly, if she doesn't act to remove the kid from the situation. At the very least, she may lose custody of the child to foster care.
     
  4. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Good Samaritan Laws are not about making people respond. They're designed to protect people aiding the victim from being sued if something goes wrong.
     
  5. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    The healing power of sports is happening right now.

    It's 0-0 at the end of the first quarter of the Penn State-Nebraska football game. I'm going to turn it off now. I've got work to do and don't care who wins. I just wanted to see what was going on and it's young men running, passing and hitting each other. In other words, it's football. The events of the past week haven't gone away but don't matter for these three hours.

    One more time, it's proven that the game is bigger than the men involved. This last week we learned of men who thought they were more important than the game, and even worse, more important than its weakest and most helpless fans. No, it's the game that's supreme. The game goes on despite the failings of the people who thought they controled it.

    It's the wonder of sports. The game is more powerful than the hubris of demigods. It will continue after these small men have been relegated to the dustbin. Sports once again reminds us how it is bigger than the people who play it. The game continues. The men who serve it are made larger. On the field, the players become one with their teammates. In the stands, the observer becomes one with his fellow fans. A roaring crowd envigorates the players, who in turn cause the cheers to get louder.

    Those who serve the game become part of a greater whole and find joy. Those who think they are bigger than the game are lost.
     
  6. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    In some states if you do not intervene in such a situation, you can be held criminally liable.
     
  7. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Proof please.
     
  8. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    I'm sure you can look it up.
     
  9. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Meaning, you don't have proof.
     
  10. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    There have been discussions of a Kitty Genovese law, where you'd have to come to the aid of a person if their life was in peril, but I don't know of any city or state which has enacted one. Even New York City, where Kitty Genovese was killed in front of 38 people, hasn't enacted such a law.

    I know of no law requring assistance where there is assault, sexual or otherwise, but I could well be wrong.
     
  11. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    No, my original statement remains. In some states, failure to do anything when witnessing a crime is itself a punishable offense. Doesn't mean one is charged with murder if one witnesses a murder and does nothing.
     
  12. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    It also doesn't mean one will even be charged with anything. In Illinois, when a kid was beaten to death by several people in a now famous mob attack shown nationwide, several people were charged with the kid's murder, and rightly so. Others were charged with failure to help, leading to his death, but those prosecutions never went forward and were disposed of. Only the primary and secondary attackers were eventually convicted.
     
  13. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    You said it's you can be held criminally liable if you do not intervene in such a situation. Prove your claim.
     
  14. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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  15. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    That would make sense, because failure to act is itself not punishable. In order for inaction to be so, there'd have to be some kind of statute that says such inaction is a criminal (or civil) offense.
     
  16. Sharkie_Fan

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    The duty to rescue laws on the books (yes, there are some) do NOT require PHYSICAL intervention. Merely reporting the incident meets the requirements of all the duty to rescue laws that I can find.

    So, again, Mike McQueary has done what was "legally" required in this situation, and has next to no chance of facing any criminal action in this case. The slim possibility for prosecution in this situation would be if it was deemed improper to report the incident to his superior rather than law enforcement.

    Of course, Pennsylvania is not one of the states that currently has any precendent for duty to rescue, so unless some prosecutor is out to set precendent (which I suppose is possible), I don't see McQueary facing any criminal prosecution.
     
  17. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    @
    ABC World News was discussing this very issue on their program last night. They commented that he may not be fully immune from being charged, because in this case, he actually witnessed a crime occurring instead of just knowing about it.
     
  18. Sharkie_Fan

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    I still think it's a very slim possibility, but, I wouldn't be completely surprised to see charges brought. This would be a good case to set precedent for what is required of an adult who witnesses acts of abuse (especially those against a child). I think he (McQueary) may be the "safest" of the people involved in the situation, but nobody is ever 100% safe, especially when we're talking about the atrocities involved in this particular case.

    I'm not a proponent, personally, of a duty to render aid that is too broad, and requires physical intervention. In many cases, a witness attempting to physically interve can cause more harm than good. This, though, isn't one of those cases, and it's not unreasonable, IMO, to say that McQueary (and the other people involved) should have done more. I think everyone would agree that at the very least, an immediate call to law enforcement would have been a more appropriate response, so this might be a chance to establish that as a requirement in the state of Pennsylvania.
     
  19. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You know... I get that the Penn St players and students and most fans had nothing to do with the scandal... and I do feel a "little" bit for them being painted with this brush...

    But... It would be hard for me to care much less for today's game than I do (did). I saw the final score, but didn't watch any of it. Zero interest.

    While some argue that playing the game "proved" that Paterno and others weren't bigger than the school like they might have thought.

    It arguably also, unfortunately, seems to prove that the school still sees itself more important than this scandal and the alleged victims.

    Some compared this to NFL football after 9/11... I say NO. Everyone took a break from everything immediately after 9/11... eventually normalcy had to come back to society... and the NFL had ZERO to do with the 9/11 attacks... so them coming back to work and distracting people was welcomed by many.

    But in this case... the university and the football program, going back to business as usual while still in the midst of trying to deflect blame (by getting rid of people it deems solely responsible so they can say "we are moving forward") doesn't feel right to me.

    For those drawing the NFL and 9/11 comparison... Would you have wanted your NFL team back on the field that first weekend of play IF one of the hijackers had ties to that NFL team? I'm guessing no... it would be too close, too soon.

    I, and others, still see Penn St trying to sweep this under the rug. Only this time, instead of hiding and not reporting... they are pointing fingers, firing, and trying to wash their hands of it and say they have done their part to clean up the program... but in reality they are really just trying to save face, make their football money, and hope people forget fast.
     
  20. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    If Penn State is trying to sweep this under the carpet, they sure are doing an awful job of it.

    And I didn't link to the other 31,198 articles on the scandal at Google News. The links I did include range from President Obama's comments last night to one from the Adult Video News saying how many people in the porn industry have better morals than those at Penn State.

    My point is that this scandal has gone way beyond the sports world. It is being reported on by media at all levels and across industries. I heard comments yesterday from people outside of the sports news business that this is the biggest sports story ever. Maybe so. No matter what Penn State tries to do to tamp down this story, it is out of their control. There will be continuing coverage for years. It's all out in the public now and will not go away, no matter what Penn State wants.
     
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