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Ticked about having NO network stations in HD!

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by marty45714, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Mar 2, 2011 #61 of 109
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    In 2004 Congress changed the law, preventing delivery of distants into MARKETS that had a carried affiliate. Subscribers that had a distant could be grandfathered. In MARKETS that do not have an affiliate of a particular network carried that network can be imported ... but that 2004 change of law got rid of the option to deliver both an in-market and distant affiliate to white areas.

    A "short market" is a market missing one or more network affiliate. Distants can be brought in for the missing networks.
     
  2. Mar 2, 2011 #62 of 109
    kenglish

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    Salt Lake...
    I love the analogy. Thank You.:)
     
  3. Mar 2, 2011 #63 of 109
    James Long

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    New Uplinks / Mappings - Channels Available
    9950 WABC added to 119° TP 20 (SD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9951 WCBS added to 119° TP 20 (SD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9952 WNBC added to 119° TP 20 (SD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9953 WNYW added to 119° TP 20 (SD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9954 KABC added to 110° TP 17 (HD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9955 KCBS added to 110° TP 17 (HD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9956 KNBC added to 110° TP 17 (HD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9957 KTTV added to 110° TP 17 (HD Hidden) AVAILABLE
    9958 PBS PBS National Feed added to 119° TP 8 (SD Hidden) AVAILABLE


    The actual content of the feeds and available to whom? I don't know.
    110° TP 17 is the former NPS/AAD HD location ... 119° TP 20 is the long time home of NYC SD stations.
    Perhaps DISH's RV service is coming?
     
  4. Mar 15, 2011 #64 of 109
    Juanjo

    Juanjo Cool Member

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    Hey, James I hope you are doing fine. Although I have a strong signal from 110 Tp 17 these channels are not showing up on my guide. Do you know why could that be.
     
  5. Mar 15, 2011 #65 of 109
    BobaBird

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    You quoted the answer.

    To expand, "hidden" means only those who subscribe to the channel see it in their guide, and he doesn't know who that may be. Aside from the clue taken from the current names of the channels, the actual content of the channels is also unknown.
     
  6. Mar 15, 2011 #66 of 109
    RasputinAXP

    RasputinAXP Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

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    Because you don't have distants?
     
  7. Mar 15, 2011 #67 of 109
    Juanjo

    Juanjo Cool Member

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    So how can I subscribe to them? What package?
     
  8. Mar 15, 2011 #68 of 109
    Juanjo

    Juanjo Cool Member

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    You mean distant hd ? No , since AAD suspended the service
     
  9. Mar 16, 2011 #69 of 109
    James Long

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    We don't know.

    "Available" is just a nice way of saying the channels are no longer marked "test" in the data. It doesn't say WHO is authorized to view the channels (if anyone). DISH may have turned them on to demonstrate them to a potential distants company without giving that company full access to all test channels. Unless and until someone announces a programming package we'll never know for sure.

    Weird, but "available" doesn't always mean available to customers.

    (And as noted the "hidden" flag means the channels are hidden from all except those who are authorized to view the channels. Without that flag they would be red in the guide for those who were not authorized to view the channels. Or green if a different flag was on the channel.)
     
  10. Mar 16, 2011 #70 of 109
    runner861

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    So were the channels visible in the guide for a brief period of time when they were marked available (March 2), until they had a hidden channel group added (March 4)?
     
  11. Mar 16, 2011 #71 of 109
    James Long

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    The hidden marker was there when they were first added on March 2nd.
    The March 4th change was internal (another "channel group" added) with the channels remaining hidden.

    Here's the March 2nd post:
    Still no clue "to whom" ...
     
  12. Mar 31, 2011 #72 of 109
    runner861

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    Just a thought--perhaps these stations are being sold by Dish through pocket sales, at least pending location of a distants vendor. That would explain why the stations are uplinked and available.
     
  13. Apr 1, 2011 #73 of 109
    psdstu

    psdstu Mentor

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    As we finish the 1st quarter of the year I don't think DISH has added any new Local HD stations.

    I hope that those of us who are to still waiting to receive our missing HD locals might see something from DISH soon....... especially because OTA HD is not possible..... hope springs eternal...
     
  14. Apr 1, 2011 #74 of 109
    James Long

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    HD Locals made available since December 31st ....

    Channels Uplinked before December 31st Now Available
    5256 WUFT (5 HD Local) GAINESVILLE, FL (PBS) 129° 13s53 (SC Florida) HD Gainesville, FL market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5273 KXTF (35 HD Local) TWIN FALLS, ID (FOX) 129° 8s12 (NE Idaho) HD Twin Falls, ID market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5122 KTNL (2 HD Local) SITKA, AK (CBS) 110° 4s46 and 4s47 (Alaska / Hawaii) HD Juneau, AK market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5251 KZTV (10 HD Local) CORPUS CHRISTI, TX (CBS) 129° 13s52 (South Texas) HD Corpus Christi, TX market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5274 KQET (25 HD Local) WATSONVILLE, CA (PBS) 129° 13s32 (WC California) HD Monterey, CA market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5278 KSMS (67 HD Local) MONTEREY, CA (UNIVISION) 129° 13s32 (WC California) HD Monterey, CA market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5194 WNYA (51 HD Local) KINDERHOOK, NY 61.5° 3s3 (Bethpage) HD Albany, NY market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5276 KUFM (11 HD Local) MISSOULA, MT (PBS) 129° 6s11 (NW Idaho) HD Missoula, MT market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5256 KAID (4 HD Local) BOISE, ID (PBS) 129° 4s11 (NW Idaho) HD Boise, ID market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5156 WRLK (35 HD Local) COLUMBIA, SC (PBS) 61.5° 5s8 (Charleston) HD Columbia, SC market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5266 WPSU (3 HD Local) CLEARFIELD, PA (PBS) 129° 12s26 (SC New York) HD Johnstown/Altoona, PA market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5266 KISU (10 HD Local) POCATELLO, ID (PBS) 129° 7s12 (NE Idaho) HD Idaho Falls, ID market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5255 KSIN (27 HD Local) SIOUX CITY, IA (PBS) 129° 16s14 (Central Minnesota) HD Sioux City, IA market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5256 KXNE (19 HD Local) NORFOLK, NE (PBS) 129° 16s14 (Central Minnesota) HD Sioux City, IA market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5255 WGTE (30 HD Local) TOLEDO, OH (PBS) 129° 16s23 (NW New York) HD Toledo, OH market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5280 WGXAD (16 HD Local) MACON, GA (ABC) 77° TP 13 HD Macon, GA market Hidden - AVAILABLE
    5283 WGXA (24 HD Local) MACON, GA (FOX) 77° TP 13 HD Macon, GA market Hidden - AVAILABLE

    New Uplinks / Mappings - Channels Available
    5170 WHTM (27 HD Local) HARRISBURG, PA (ABC) added to 77° TP 20 (HD Harrisburg, PA market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (27-01)
    5171 WHP (21 HD Local) HARRISBURG, PA (CBS) added to 77° TP 20 (HD Harrisburg, PA market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (21-01)
    6317 KCOP (13 HD Local) LOS ANGELES, CA (MYTV) added to 129° 6s33 (South California) (HD Los Angeles, CA market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (13-01)
    5173 WRDQ (27 HD Local) ORLANDO, FL (ABC) added to 129° 5s53 (SC Florida) (HD Orlando, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (27-01)
    5173 WRDQ (27 HD Local) ORLANDO, FL (ABC) added to 61.5° 3s9 (Miami) (HD Orlando, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (27-01)
    5154 WKPD (29 HD Local) PADUCAH, KY (PBS) added to 77° TP 12 (HD Paducah, KY/Harrisburg, IL market Hidden) AVAILABLE
    5265 KPXJ (21 HD Local) MINDEN, LA (CW) added to 119° 1sA13 (Shreveport) (HD Shreveport, LA market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (21-01)
    5266 KDCU (31 HD Local) DERBY, KS added to 119° 4sB09 (Oklahoma City) (HD Wichita, KS market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (31-01)
    5154 WAPA (4 HD Local) SAN JUAN, PR added to 119° 5sB22 (Puerto Rico) (HD San Juan, PR market Hidden) AVAILABLE OTA Mapping (4-01) - Regional Restriction

    New Uplinks / Mappings - Channels NOT Available (some recently added)
    6317 WCIU (26 HD) CHICAGO, IL added to 129° 9s22 (Lake Michigan) (HD Chicago, IL market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (26-01)
    6317 WCIU (26 HD) CHICAGO, IL added to 61.5° 11s11 (Chicago) (HD Chicago, IL market *TEST* Hidden) EPG linked to 129° 9s22 (Lake Michigan) Ch 6317
    6338 KTFD (14 HD) BOULDER, CO (TELEFUTURA) added to 129° 6s19 (NC Colorado) (HD Denver, CO market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (14-01)
    5258 KINT (26 HD) EL PASO, TX (UNIVISION) added to 129° 11s46 (West Texas) (HD El Paso, TX market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (26-01)
    5260 KTFN (65 HD) EL PASO, TX (TELEFUTURA) added to 129° 11s46 (West Texas) (HD El Paso, TX market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (65-01)
    5265 KNVO (48 HD) MCALLEN, TX (UNIVISION) added to 129° 4s52 (South Texas) (HD Harlingen/Brownsville, TX market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (48-01)
    5270 KTFV (32 HD) MCALLEN, TX added to 129° 4s52 (South Texas) (HD Harlingen/Brownsville, TX market *TEST* Hidden)
    6308 WXTV (41 HD) PATERSON, NJ (UNIVISION) added to 61.5° 7s3 (Bethpage) (HD New York, NY market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (41-01)
    6315 WFTY (67 HD) SMITHTOWN, NY (TELEFUTURA) added to 61.5° 7s3 (Bethpage) (HD New York, NY market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (67-01)
    6403 KUVS (19 HD) MODESTO, CA (UNIVISION) added to 110° 18s43 (North California) (HD Sacramento, CA market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (19-01)
    6405 KTFK (64 HD) STOCKTON, CA (TELEFUTURA) added to 110° 18s43 (North California) (HD Sacramento, CA market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (64-01)
    6414 KDTF (36 HD) SAN DIEGO, CA (TELEFUTURA) added to 110° 29s39 (SC California) (HD San Diego, CA market *TEST* Hidden)
    6444 KDTV (14 HD) SANTA ROSA, CA (UNIVISION) added to 119° 4sA02 (San Fransisco) (HD San Fransisco, CA market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (14-01)
    6445 KFSF (66 HD) VALLEJO, CA (TELEFUTURA) added to 119° 4sA02 (San Fransisco) (HD San Fransisco, CA market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (66-01)
    5254 WLMB (40 HD) TOLEDO, OH added to 129° 16s23 (NW New York) (HD Toledo, OH market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (40-01)
    5153 WKAQ (2 HD) SAN JUAN, PR (NBC) added to 119° 5sB22 (Puerto Rico) (HD San Juan, PR market *TEST* Hidden) OTA Mapping (2-01) - Regional Restriction

    Lots of additions and more currently testing. Don't lose hope.
     
  15. Apr 1, 2011 #75 of 109
    runner861

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    But no news on HD distants. And no uplinks of PBS in the San Francisco market. San Francisco, being the number five market in the country, is far behind where it should be on Dish.
     
  16. Apr 1, 2011 #76 of 109
    tampa8

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    Very much agree, unless there is more to it.
     
  17. Apr 1, 2011 #77 of 109
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Add that failure to the list. :rolleyes:

    Do you know how many DISH subscribers are in that market? Those are the people they need to serve. What is San Fransisco's market rank in DISH subscribers? DISH doesn't have HD PBS in Chicago either. Or Philadelphia. Or Boston. Or DC. They have New York, Los Angeles, Dallas, Atlanta and Houston.

    They'll have it within the next couple of years ... probably after Chicago and after a lot of smaller markets that need PBS to be 100% HD markets. (Although Chicago has multiple PBS stations so they may have to wait too.)


    As for Distants, finding a party that can legally deliver Distants and wants to take the financial risk isn't trivial. DISH's ability to legally deliver Distants is very limited - and delivering them illegally is not a good idea. They can't force some unrelated company into offering a service - and the more "help" they give to said unrelated company the more likely that the court will rule the offer as illegal. Their safe bet would be to offer RV Distants and use the ConUS bandwidth for HD that serves most of their 14 million customers ... not just a few.


    DISH is adding locals in HD ... their progress for the past quarter is above. I would not expect any completely new HD markets until the end of the year. Keep an eye out for more fill-ins that will create 100% HD markets. That is the challenge before them when it comes to locals today.
     
  18. Apr 1, 2011 #78 of 109
    runner861

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    I don't know where San Francisco ranks in terms of Dish subscribers in that market, as opposed to other markets. That number, however, will be affected by the number of local HD stations available.

    With regard to the distants, the ConUS bandwith is occupied by the uplinked distants. It is just a matter of authorizing subscribers to receive the channels. It seems by the fact that the distants are still uplinked that Dish wants this service to exist. It goes without saying that Dish should not offer distants illegally. However, Dish is no longer barred from working with another company to offer distants. The injunction has been lifted. Dish can do anything that the law allows with regard to distants. The law prohibiting them from working with another company to offer distants related to the section that required the injunction.

    Dish does have a special master watching, so they are under extra scrutiny, but the law is no different for them than for any other company.
     
  19. Apr 1, 2011 #79 of 109
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I believe you're glossing over what DISH can and cannot do and what the injunction covered.

    DISH can offer a network channel as a distant ONLY in markets where they do not carry that network on a local station. In markets where that network is not carried (due to contract dispute) DISH could deliver a distant ONLY to those who are outside of the station's coverage area. (If you say that a station in a contract dispute would approve waivers I want some of what you're smoking.) That creates a very narrow market for distant network stations, with RVers being the only addition.

    The injunction did not prohibit DISH from working with another company. There was never a law that prevented them from working with another company. However that other company MUST be separate from DISH. DISH cannot work around the carriage laws by using a puppet company. Leasing full transponders and providing some separate company access (such as they do with AAD and as they did with SkyAngel) was ruled permissible by the court.

    If a service is offered by DISH it MUST follow the law. No relaxation. Having the service simply billed by a 3rd party isn't going to cut the mustard.

    The law that allows DISH to offer Distants IS different. In order to be able to offer Distants in ANY market (even the fill-ins for short markets) DISH must offer carriage to local stations in ALL markets. DISH has also lost all of their grandfathered customers. Other companies are not under the restrictions DISH is under and can grandfather customers.
     
  20. Apr 2, 2011 #80 of 109
    psdstu

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    The fill-in of the big 4 that I am missing (CBS) comes from Dothan which has no locals in HD so it looks like I could be waiting for awhile.

    Thanks for your update on the 1st quarter HD local additions!

    Stu
     

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