Tivo and Liberty Media

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by faust0068, Oct 11, 2007.

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  1. Oct 11, 2007 #61 of 211
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    The thing is, if the FCC did step in and open up the market, it would probably end up being the end of the highly subsidized hardware we have now.

    Personally, I don't miss the TiVo, and if it is your cup of tea, I get that. But unfortunately I don't see a lot of TiVo in the next three years at DIRECTV, they would have to start now and they aren't. And then... well I guess the question will be where will TiVo the company be in three years with declining income from DirecTivos.
     
  2. Oct 11, 2007 #62 of 211
    Milominderbinder2

    Milominderbinder2 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

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    I could not have said this better.

    With Earl's guidance, DIRECTV now has a zillion users who feel that they are "insiders." Users who feels like they are insiders are probably going to be pretty good advocates for your product.

    We have had times where with literally a week or even 24 hour turn-around DIRECTV has responded to our requests. It is fun getting to be a part of something like that.

    TiVo instead keeps us in the dark and makes promises for next year.

    DIRECTV now has a 1000+ testers working for free, anxiously waiting for their next email saying they get to test the next release. Between us we probably do more real-life testing in one Friday night than a team of 30 professional testers could do in a month. We routinely do things to our HR20's that no sain developer could imagine!

    I have never seen anything like it. Now that DIRECTV has really hit its stride we have averaged a CE a week since June.

    The other thing that DIRECTV is doing is actively listening to us on this forum. Look at the:
    Listing of Improvements to the HR20

    The 29 in green are a direct result of our requests here. When the release notes come out they often use our exact wording.

    Look how far the HR20 has come in 12 months. It may have been because they were forced to but for whatever reason DIRECTV has embraced their users to test their products like I have never seen before.

    Someday I think that this will be a case study in Harvard Business Reveiw.

    - Craig
     
  3. Oct 11, 2007 #63 of 211
    skakusha

    skakusha AllStar

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    +1 Well said. I love the HD channels we have, regardless of the DVR we use. I have used Comcast's and Dish's HD DVR's, and I prefer the HR20, along with my friends and family.

    In addition, the CE program has been very valuable in getting issues resolved. The voice we have via this forum to DTV is priceless. There have been a lot of new features and enhancements since the launch of the HR20. I also think that the CE program is fun, and keeps DTV in contact with there customer base. Who knows what new features and enhancements are yet to come.

    More than 50 Series Links. :D
     
  4. Oct 11, 2007 #64 of 211
    Peapod

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    Isn't this really DirecTV keeping people in the dark and making promises for next year about software upgrades though? I think the biggest problem with the DirecTV/TiVo relationship as it previously existed was DirecTV users getting software updates on a significantly delayed schedule compared to standalone users, or never.

    The positive here is that the DirecTV DVR program only serves one master, but I think it is unfair to put the blame on TiVo for features that have been available for DirecTV to make use of for years now. These features promised for next year could already have been available on series 2 TiVo based DirecTV DVRs, and the delays for them and any communication about updates is DirecTV's responsibility here, not TiVo. Or am I misunderstanding something?
     
  5. Oct 11, 2007 #65 of 211
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    What I think is unfair... is the universal opinion, that TiVo had no part in that decision....

    While yes... DirecTV ultimately was the final decision, to not allow it...
    None of us have all the factors involved in that decision...

    What if TiVo was asking for more per-subscriber if those features were enabled... and that is the reason why we don't have it ?
    What if to do it, and make it more Secure (MRV), DirecTV requested TiVo lock down the process more... as it is pretty common knowledge on how to get past some of the TiVo2Go features...
     
  6. Oct 11, 2007 #66 of 211
    Peapod

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    Good points.

    I think what we can say is that whatever the reasons, the relationship as it previously existed has not worked out nearly as well for the end user as it has with the HR20. It really doesn't matter who is responsible for the delays. The existence of them is itself a weak point of the previous relationship with TiVo.
     
  7. Oct 11, 2007 #67 of 211
    Doug Brott

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    Very true ..
     
  8. Oct 11, 2007 #68 of 211
    kmill14

    kmill14 Godfather

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    I think what seems to be ignored here is that the HR-20 is still working on being a good recording device, and at the same time adding other features it feels will add revenue and keep the masses content. Meanwhile, Tivo as a product is leaps and bounds ahead of the HR-20 for advanced search and record features. It has had a remote scheduling feature for years, the ability to access broadband content, and both Video and Music on Demand services.

    Needless to say, as a customer, I would love to have access to the best that DTV has to offer, and the best that a DVR can offer. Unfortunately, I don't get that opportunity. I put a significant amount of blame on Rupert Murdoch and his desire to scratch the back of another company he had interests in.

    Hopefully the new owners of DTV will find that it is in their best interest not to drive away a significant group of subscribers who feel strongly about the Tivo product.
     
  9. Oct 11, 2007 #69 of 211
    donshan

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    You are right that Replay and Tivo hit the market about the same time, but Replay folded without the patents Tivo had. I remember going to Best Buy and seeing both Replay and Tivo, chose Tivo and it is still running in a BR on cable TV with a lifetime TIVO Guide subscription . I was a short term Tivo stockholder so I remember some of the literature I got, and I might add Tivo is a great product, but lousy investment. I sold my few shares at a loss!


    I am no lawyer so only am trying to remember some of the details, but this Tivo link lists the main points:

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/TIVO/144485376x0xS1193125-07-81563/1088825/filing.pdf


    Tivo patents cover the functions of:

    • simultaneous recording and playing to and from a hard drive such as playing one DVR recording while simultaneously recording others.

    • the functions that enable DVRs to pause live TV as well as rewind, fast-forward, play, play faster, play slower, and play in reverse television signals cached by the DVR,

    • random access while doing the above,

    • others marked in bold in the quote below.

    It seems to me all DVRs now in use include these functions. However, you are right, legal beagles think they find loopholes in Tivos general claims. This won't be settled until the E* appeal of their earlier court loss is final.



     
  10. Oct 11, 2007 #70 of 211
    Doug Brott

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    Drive them to where? As it is now, if HD is your thing then DIRECTV is the place to go. If you want that HD, you need an HR20 to get it. No matter what choice you make, you are going to be settling in some way shape or form. From what I can see, there is no "perfect" solution.

    For me, DIRECTV is my content provider - hands down, no questions. To make the best use of that content it's the HR20 because it's the only thing with both HD and DVR that is available. So the choice is simple on what to get. What have I done about that? I've become quite active here because DIRECTV is listening to what we say and I'm doing my part to help improve the HR20 since that's all we got.
     
  11. Oct 11, 2007 #71 of 211
    tonyd79

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    I don't think so. Tivo is pretty secretive about what they are developing to the point that if someone even says they are in a beta program without even mentioning what is in it, Tivo kicks them out.

    I spent a lot of time on tivocommunity and I got more and more the feeling that Tivo didn't listen to its customers. Very few suggestions ever got implemented.

    Granted, the two tier dealings (DirecTV and Tivo) made it harder for the customer. So why would we want that again? Any DirecTV/Tivo box would have to be a set of features common to what BOTH companies want us to have. That has to be less than a TIVO SA or a DirecTV DVR by its very nature.
     
  12. Oct 11, 2007 #72 of 211
    bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    Which one must remember that 95+% of the population will never use these features. They set their season pass to Lost, Survivor and Dance with the Stars and they'll never do anything in the menu's again until next fall season.

    Those are great features, don't get me wrong. But Joe Sixpack isn't even aware they exist let alone something he'll use.
     
  13. Oct 11, 2007 #73 of 211
    Jolliec

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    I really think the TiVo ship has sailed. Cablecard nightmares, poor sales, and high subscription fees, I would go so far as to say that they will be out of business within 2 yrs. Providers are simply resolving to the fact that they need to do their own thing, as D* did. And, personally, I am very glad that they did.

    I do miss some of the features from both TiVo and ReplayTV (MRV mainly), but overall I am pleased with the direction D* is going.
     
  14. Oct 11, 2007 #74 of 211
    cuibap

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    I'm happy Tivo is OUT. HR20 is good now even though it has few things that I don't like but I still prefer Hr20 over Tivo anytime.
     
  15. Oct 11, 2007 #75 of 211
    csgo

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    I was told months ago (and posted here) that DirecTV want's out of the DVR business. The HR-20 experience has been a nightmare for them. The product has been on the market for over a year and is still experiencing major problems.

    I believe the hardware information has been released to a "third party" (TiVo?) for evaluation.

    I'm not a TiVo fan. Don't really like their interface at all, but someone needs to bring stability to the HR-20 since it's painfully obvious that the current crew does not have the competence to make it happen.
     
  16. Oct 11, 2007 #76 of 211
    Peapod

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    What stability problems are you referring to? I haven't experienced any major stability issues at all in many months, and I haven't seen reports of any major stability problems.
     
  17. Oct 11, 2007 #77 of 211
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Who told you this? I can say with certainty that no one has told me anything resembling that statement.
     
  18. Oct 11, 2007 #78 of 211
    raw121

    raw121 AllStar

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    With the sale, does D* still have a stake in the company that developed the HR20 or does that stay with news corp?
     
  19. Oct 11, 2007 #79 of 211
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    The HR20 was completely developed by DirecTV...
    So yes... they still have a stake it...
     
  20. Oct 11, 2007 #80 of 211
    raw121

    raw121 AllStar

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    I thought some company called NDS or some other three letter name did the development. I guess I was wrong.
     
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