TiVo vs Echostar ... June 30th-July 18th Filings

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by James Long, Jun 30, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sep 3, 2008 #2381 of 2438
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    49,411
    1,758
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    See post above and explain yourself.
    I had hoped after all of these months you would have learned not to insult people when you lose an argument. When you post false information expect it to be challenged. You might also want to read my posts before labeling me a Tivo supporter. :)

    Keep it on topic, Tivo vs Echostar.
     
  2. Sep 3, 2008 #2382 of 2438
    Ergan's Toupe

    Ergan's Toupe Duplicate User (Account Closed)

    427
    0
    Aug 21, 2008
    Why did you imply that Tivo was lying. Simple question, how about a simple answer.

    And please keep your condescending BS to yourself. Believe me, you don't want me to give it back to you.
     
  3. Sep 3, 2008 #2383 of 2438
    nobody99

    nobody99 Icon

    807
    0
    May 20, 2008
    Wow, seriously, just try to stop the fingers from typing for a few minutes a day. Please. Your ignorance (and I mean this in the dictionary sense of the word, as in "lack of knowledge about the subject at hand") is removing what little credibility you had left.

    http://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoprivacypolicy.html

    Seriously, jac, don't start claiming that TiVo is infringing on sub's privacy.

    Must you claim to be an expert on everything?
     
  4. Sep 3, 2008 #2384 of 2438
    nobody99

    nobody99 Icon

    807
    0
    May 20, 2008
    I'll chuckle at, er, address each individually.


    Not sure what you are predicting here. "Likely not in contempt" ain't much of a prediction. "case could even be over" - what??

    Let me give you an example of a prediction (mine)

    A decision on contempt will not be made on September 4th, but a date will set for a decision. Based on Judge Folsom's questions to each party will determine if DISH settles or not before the ruling. I predict a 60% chance of a settlement between September 4 - 11. A wild guess, yes.

    Um, isn't that what a settlement is?

    Really not believable anyway

    Hahahaha. Not a chance.

    Unlikely. As soon as the SC rejects the appeal, the money is TiVo's. It's already in escrow.

    Define "lip service." Otherwise that's not much of a prediction.

    "begin to focus" on new technology? What do new agreements have to do with this? They've never really lost focus on new technologies. If you mean that major providers will ask TiVo develop particular technologies, I agree with that, but that's kinda the opposite of lip service, isn't it?
     
  5. Sep 3, 2008 #2385 of 2438
    Ergan's Toupe

    Ergan's Toupe Duplicate User (Account Closed)

    427
    0
    Aug 21, 2008
    I'm sorry, but I can no longer take you seriously. !rolling
     
  6. Sep 3, 2008 #2386 of 2438
    jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

    6,544
    0
    Sep 8, 2006
    Give it up, stop quoting what Tivo is saying as if Tivo is your God. Of course Tivo will say that, did Tivo tell you Tivo has signed several deals with the studios and networks to try to use the data Tivo boxes collected to get around the fact people are skipping the commercials?

    Do you need me to post a few links for you or can you go search for youself? I am sure as an Tivo expert you already know, maybe you just again failed to understand what I meant by the viewers' viewing habit are increasingly sold to the companies, and Tivo is on the cutting edge of this.
     
  7. Sep 3, 2008 #2387 of 2438
    Ergan's Toupe

    Ergan's Toupe Duplicate User (Account Closed)

    427
    0
    Aug 21, 2008
    Are you trying to say Tivo is lying again? Dude, give it up. :nono:
     
  8. Sep 3, 2008 #2388 of 2438
    jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

    6,544
    0
    Sep 8, 2006
    If you can't understand, it is not the first time.

    Good to see you already had a change of mind, I still remember your last prediction to come on 9/4 to gloat.

    Again total lack of understanding how things work. It will take a very long time for the SC to even make a decision, meanwhile Tivo cannot have the money. A settlement after no contempt will allow Tivo the access to a portion of the money at least, in exchange of a licensing agreement with DISH.

    As shown before you can hardly read between the lines so let me lay it out for you:

    1) Tivo's agreement with Comcast started last year, has yet shown any acceptance by the Comcast subs, they keep pushing the date back now to the end of this year. Selecting Comcast was a bad move, Comcast is known not able to make the service work right.

    2) Tivo has been losing D* accounts so fast they could hardly keep up with the counting. Last year Tivo had 4.2 million accounts, a year later today 3.6 million. D* is replacing DirecTivo boxes free of charge for its subs at an even faster pace now.

    3) So now we have another agreement between D* and Tivo not going to start until the end of 2009, and by that it means some time in 1010. If I still have my 4 D* HR21s by then, I would imagine my HR21s will have improved a lot, so for me to even consider paying extra fees per month so I can upgrade my HR21s to this proposed new D*/Tivo box, the box will almost have to do the cooking for me.

    I hope now you know what I mean by "lip service".

    They have lost focus in that they spent too much time on litigations in the last few years, allowing all the providers to develop their own DVRs to be as good as Tivo, to the point most people who are new to the DVR scene now simply don't see any reason to go Tivo anymore, rather the DVRs of all the TV providers' own making.

    Which is why Tivo's sub base has been going down by 800k last year and this will continue unless they change their focus.
     
  9. Sep 3, 2008 #2389 of 2438
    nobody99

    nobody99 Icon

    807
    0
    May 20, 2008
    Uhmm, hmmm, no. Sorry, I'm going to keep calling you on your lies. Keep lying, and I'll keep exposing it. Think of me as that annoying little horsefly who keeps buzzing your ear. I'm not going away.

    And this data contains private information how? Anonymous, aggregated user data, yes. Private data, no. I see no harm in it. While we're at it, can you show me the Dish Network privacy policy? Since they don't have one, I would assume that they are selling your information to whomever asks.

    Here is what you said:

    You lied (again). You were called on it (again). And you complain after being called on it (again).
     
  10. Sep 3, 2008 #2390 of 2438
    Ergan's Toupe

    Ergan's Toupe Duplicate User (Account Closed)

    427
    0
    Aug 21, 2008
    No it will not. Why do you keep making stuff up? If Tivo waives their right to answer Charlie's Hail Mary, the SCOTUS can dismiss this case as soon as the 2nd week of Oct.

    A month and a half is hardly "a very long time".

    One would think an expert on everything Tivo would know that.
     
  11. Sep 3, 2008 #2391 of 2438
    nobody99

    nobody99 Icon

    807
    0
    May 20, 2008
    Actually, the prediction to gloat was on 5/30. I was wrong. My prediction for the 9/4 hearing is unchanged. Read carefully: I said a decision on contempt (either for or against) would not happen on 9/4.

    Total lack of understanding, huh? Uhm, ok. Let's look at a recent TIVO SEC filing:

    What part am I misundertanding, specifically? There is a less than 1% chance the Supreme Court takes the case. As soon as they decline to take it, the money is released from escrow. Since I have a "total lack of understanding" and want to learn, can you tell me where my understanding is lacking?

    You are HILARIOUS!

    Are you suggesting that when you use language like this you are somehow conveying facts of the situation? Honestly, I am having a good chuckle about this. Thanks for that.

    More facts from jacmyoung. Too funny :lol:

    I can tell you exactly why. When Murdoch bought DirecTV he had his own platform (NDS) and kicked TiVo out. DirecTV went out of their way to make it favorable -- and necessary in the case of HD -- to replace TiVo equipment with NDS's equipment. They lost these subscriptions because they were not given the opportunity to keep them. A lot of people left DirecTV and went back to cable as a result. I am one of them.

    Now that Murdoch has sold DirecTV to Malone, the relationship is back on.

    This isn't about TiVo's lack of innovation. It's about a large customer base not even having the choice to remain customers.
     
  12. Sep 3, 2008 #2392 of 2438
    jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

    6,544
    0
    Sep 8, 2006
    Oh please, when I say lack of innovation, it also touched on the way Tivo tried to secure agreements, as compared to their effort in the court.

    If your large customer base meant those D* subs, sorry did I tell you all the providers are favoring their own DVR technologies as supposed to Tivo's? Why is the fact D* decided not to let their own sub base to have Tivo as the first choice something surprised you? The fact D*'s HR21s now have virtually all the necessary DVR gigs, plus a few Tivo doesn't have, is a good enough proof that Tivo no longer has the advantage over anyone else's DVRs.

    This is more true for people that consider Tivo as a standalone service, it used to be that a lot of people will seriously consider Tivo as standalones, now there is hardly any interest. In my local Costco I saw one HD Tivo box sat there for weeks without any taker, while the pile made of 20 or so HR21s got refilled every time I went back there. I guess you want to blame D* for lack of interest in that standalone Tivo box?

    Even Tivo said themselves they are now not trying to gain new subs (because they can't), rather to cut cost so to make their profit numbers look good, and seek other revenue streams, such as selling the viewing data. The problem is how long can this last? If Tivo keeps the current pace, next year this time the sub count will be around 2.8 million, by the time the so called D* Tivo is available Tivo could have only a little over 2 million subs left. A far cry from 4.2 million a year ago.

    All companies have the kind of sweet talk privacy policy as you quoted from Tivo, the difference is companies like E*, D* or Comcast are their own providers, so while they may also collect the sub data, they can use them internally, but with Tivo the only use of their sub data is to sell to an outside company for revenue. Yes your name may not be attached to a particular database, but the viewing habit of a group of subs to me is still a private information. I'd rather such information be kept within the company, not be accessable by many outside companies.
     
  13. Sep 3, 2008 #2393 of 2438
    jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

    6,544
    0
    Sep 8, 2006
    An opinon to say it was an overstatement. Tivo now says no DVR technologies can be used on those DVRs, when during the trial they said of course we were only talking about this one DVR technology used by those DVRs, not all DVR technologies.

    True, exactly my point, when Tivo argued that DISH was so bad that they needed to pay the maximum treble damages and attorney fees, did the judge agree? Did the judge say Tivo lied about calling DISH the worst thing ever as a result?

    Incorrect, please focus on the single discovery issue we are discussing now, that is Tivo's request for further discovery of the new software "just to be sure" that they were correct the new software still infringed. This one discovery request was part three of the three-part contempt topic by Tivo, and when during the meeting the judge said no could not do that, the Tivo lawyer quickly said oh but that was actuall for the purpose of damage calculation. Did the judge say but Tivo you lied? No he simply ignored him.

    I think I did, by quoting most from the case law, rather what DISH is saying. To the contrary, the other side mostly can only quote what Tivo is saying.

    No, first off I did not say Tivo lied, you thought so because you are debating outside of the court context, rather with some legal basis in mind.

    Just because Tivo said they asked DISH, and DISH did not respond, is not proof what really happened. We only heard Tivo's story. It could be that was what happened, it could be something else entirely. Would Tivo have lied if it was something else? No, not in the legal sense.

    I will give you an example, when Tivo in the 5/30 filing accused DISH of bad faith on the damages issue, with one evidence that DISH till at that time still refused to put up a bound to show good faith effort, DISH's response was hey Tivo you never even asked for such thing in the first place.

    Remember what happened on 5/30? The first thing Tivo's lawyer said to the judge was we have good news for you. It turned out after Tivo raised that issue, they apparently talked to DISH, and DISH agreed to post a bound of about $200,000, only at 1/2 of what Tivo requested, and that made both sides happy.

    Did Tivo lie? According to you yes, but according to the court no. It was resolved.

    You see once you begin to see things in the context of a court setting, you begin to lose the habit of calling anyone a liar.
     
  14. Sep 3, 2008 #2394 of 2438
    Curtis52

    Curtis52 Hall Of Fame

    1,487
    0
    Oct 13, 2003
    You are the one that libeled TiVo. You have the burden of proof.
     
  15. Sep 3, 2008 #2395 of 2438
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    49,411
    1,758
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Did you even bother to READ what was referenced? "TiVo does not collect or access any Personally Identifiable Viewing Information " ... "TiVo does collect Anonymous Viewing Information; that is, information about viewing choices made while using your TiVo DVR, but that does not identify you as an individual or household."

    The anonymous viewing data is enough to provide the information you are claiming Tivo shares.

    Please read more.
     
  16. Sep 3, 2008 #2396 of 2438
    jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

    6,544
    0
    Sep 8, 2006
    Yeah it was precisely those "anonymous" information got us into this kind of trouble of getting the sales calls, the junk mail, and all that people are so annoyed about.

    Only this time it is on TV, are you prepared? I have already had several PPVs downloaded for me by DirecTV after they assessed my viewing habit, and accidentally ordered one of them because I had no idae it was already on my harddrive. A call to D* yielded no result, a $4.99 charge on my bill even though I had no desire to watch it.
     
  17. Sep 3, 2008 #2397 of 2438
    Ergan's Toupe

    Ergan's Toupe Duplicate User (Account Closed)

    427
    0
    Aug 21, 2008
    This is that whole "it's better to be a defendant" thing, isn't it? :lol:
     
  18. Sep 3, 2008 #2398 of 2438
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    49,411
    1,758
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    The discovery request I quoted was IN WRITING back in May, before the status hearing. It was not part of a conversation at all. Your portrayal of the events as a conversation is false. Tivo's claimed reason for the discovery in conversation is the same as the claimed reason in the filing. There was no change of message by Tivo's lawyers.
    What else could it have been other than Tivo lying? You have FAILED to answer that question.
    Put up a "bound"? Nonsense. Do you really expect us to understand what you are writing? I suppose it's all our fault. :rolleyes:

    Slow down ... read ... think ... and then maybe post. OK?
     
  19. Sep 3, 2008 #2399 of 2438
    jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

    6,544
    0
    Sep 8, 2006

    What I said was I take what DISH and Tivo say with grain of salt, and I already listed many examples as why you should do so too.

    Because there were those bought into Tivo's argument that DISH should have paid treble damages and legal fees and was disappointed,

    There were those thought they could come after 5/30 to gloat according to what Tivo's filing, and was disappointed,

    Tivo accused DISH of bad faith on the damage issue because they accused of DISH of not putting up a bond, did Tivo lie? No just a lack of memory really. Are you to totally rule out something else than what exactly Tivo said about DISH not responding to Tivo in DE?

    Are you not willing to at least hear from DISH? Remember DISH pointed out Tivo never even asked for a bond before accusing DISH of bad faith for not putting up a bond?

    Whose fault was that? No one, it was he said she said, and the truth is often some where in between without anyone being accused of lying.
     
  20. Sep 3, 2008 #2400 of 2438
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    49,411
    1,758
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    FYI: Tivo's request to file a 12 page response instead of a 10 page response on the damages during the stay of the injunction issue has been granted.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

spam firewall