Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'TV Show Talk' started by mainedish, May 27, 2004.
TNT is doing a movie on Evel Knievel in July.
Because TNT means Drama. Imagine the tension with all those feats of daring.
Okkkaayyy.... do you mind clarifying your viewpoint a bit? All that I know is that he was a stunt motorcycle rider and a bit of a showboat.
There are movies about Attila the Hun, Charles Manson, Ivan the Terrible and Adolph Hitler. Even if Evel Knievel is a con man why would it surprise you in any way that there would be a movie about him?
You have told us that there is a movie but not that it is a movie that casts him in a favorable light. And while I cannot speak to all of the incidents you describe the famous Snake River Canyon incident was ALWAYS billed as a rocket powered vehicle jump---never as a motorcycle one. Having said that it was a giant sham---but that being the case why assert that it was something else?
I don't care what you do for a living. The event was widely reported. and it was reported as what it was--a rocket powered vehicle jumping the canyon. . Although what actually occurred was widely seen as disappointing----but not because anyone thought that it was even possible to jump over that canyon on a motorcycle.
The whole thing was a circus from beginning to end. Wide World of Sports hada lot of fine coverage but it also coverd a lot of things that can only loosely be called sports. In this case they were part of a media circus.
I looked at a lot of online articles about the event. They all refer to it asa joke---but none claim that Knievel promoted it in that way (and no one would have believed it if he had). Here is one that also discusses the previous movies about the guy.
Bud, I remember the whole rocket-cycle being hyped for months before the jump. There was no surprize there. What did surprize me when I actually saw it was that the cycle was already set to a steep angle on a launch pad rather than a runway and ramp. That was the only disappointment. Other than that, I saw him, with my own eyes, jump over double-decker busses at Kings Island. No smoke and mirrors there. The landing wasn't pretty. But he did it and survived.
I wonder if you just plain forgot what a phenomenon this guy was in the early to mid 70's? Saturday morning cartoons, lunch-boxes, Evil Kneivel bicycles, trading cards, halloween costumes, etc.
What kind of man he was didn't matter to us at the time. All I knew as a kid that I liked what he did.
No. No sane person thought that. The key word in rocket and ramp is ramp. Tony pretty much laid that out for you. More importantly the chute deployed right away (which may think was planned) and the whole thing was a disaster.
Sorry. And you are right that WWOS did not broadcast it live it was shown later and they did heavily promote all this.
There may havebeen people tehre wgo read only headlines and though that a conventional motorcycle was going to be used but they would be in a distinct minority.
Fine. I don't know why this is so personal to you but if you want to assert that you can.
Thank you for enlightening me. All that I know is that Knievel was big stuntperson the the 70s, and that was about it. I had no opinion either way other than "showboat".
That part I believe___and it is exactly what I said.
The film starring Geroge Hamilton was produced in 1971. The jump occcurred in 1974. No account of the jump mentions any deception by Knievel on this point. The whole thing was a joke but not because of that.
Trust me I dont like the guy any more than you do but tehre woudl seem to be enough real incidents to charge him with instead of twisting the record on this one.
MASinedish you are amazing.
Which bus did he hit at the end to crash? Was it maybe the 14th? Could the ramp over the last few busses have hsd something to do with safety? Hmmm...
I am interrested to find out why you seem to have this personal and deep hatred of the man. Did you get cheated by him? Are you his unloved bas*tard son? Did he spit in your ice cream when you were a kid? Or is it just plain jelousy that you can't get the same recognition for your feats because he beat you to it in the eyes of the public?
The thinhg is you DON'T tell the truth Mainedish. You distort the facts because they do not support you. It would seem that you ahve some sort of agenda here.
There is absolutely NO SUPPORT anywhere except in your posts for the idea that he was trelling people that he was using a motorcycle. NONE. As for the Tonight Show I understand that they use cue cards tehre. So his mistake doesn't count-----just kidding Mainedish.
Neither of those still pictures proves a thing.
But if we are going to post stills here is a site that shows Knievel with the rocket at it's unveiling-----in 1972 which is two years before the jump.
And here is a link to a site maintained by ESPN discussing the jump----and the unmanned practice flights that preceded it.
And BTW w e were both wrong about one thing----the event was live on WWOS. It was not a pay per view event. In those days tehre wereew a few closed circuit events but Ia m unaware of any true PPVs from that era.
I found a lot of accoiunts of the jump. Not a single one made mention of him attempting to tell people that he was goinng to make a jimp like that with a motorcycle. They focus on the bizarre nature of the event and speculation that he alweys intended to pull the chute on launch.
And I am amazed that you think that a still pictire of Johnny Carson and a motorcycle proves anything. Rightly or wtongly Knievel was a celerbrity and people like tha tappeared on the tonight Show all the time. It simply proves that a motorcycle daredevil appeared on the show at some point and brought a motorcycle with him. There is nothing to lnk those pictures to this incident.
And yes I think that the NYTimes is just a tad more credible than a guy on the internet who tells me has pictures in his office.
First of all I provided a link to the WWOS web site that shws that the event ws live on WWOS. I admitted that I too had a vague recollection that it had been on closed circuit first but the link is pretty clear. Here though is a quote from it:
The first crash occurred at Snake River Canyon in Idaho. Despite two failed unmanned practice attempts, Evel decided to go forward with the jump for the fans in attendance and ABC, which was televising the event live. In place of his signature Harley Davidson, Evel attempted this jump in a sky cycle -- a jet-powered sled that took off from an inclined metal runway constructed on the edge of the canyon by the Knievel team."
And here is the list ok Knievel appearances on the program----please note the dates
Evel Knievel and Wide World of Sports: A winning combination
By Christopher Ross
ABC Sports Online
In the realm of sport, television has helped create love affairs with many athletes. One of television's longest running programs, ABC's Wide World of Sports, created many of those early love affairs. One of the most famous, and in some cases, infamous affairs, was with Evel Knievel.
It has been more than 24 years since Knievel's presence has graced the Wide World stage. In a three-year span, he shocked and thrilled audiences with his death-defying acts, making an indelible impact on both the worlds of sport and entertainment. With that said, it can be argued that today's increased popularity of extreme sports can be directly traced to Knievel and Wide World of Sports.
Evel Knievel is shown in his rocket before his failed attempt at a highly promoted 3/4-mile leap across Snake River Canyon.
Born Robert Craig Knievel on Oct. 17, 1938 in Butte, Mont., he was a standout athlete at Butte High School in track and field, ski jumping and ice hockey. In 1957, he won the Class A Rocky Mountain Ski Association men's ski jumping championship.
However, the public recognized Knievel's athletic prowess and guts as daredevil. Knievel credits his career choice to Joey Chitwood's Auto Daredevil Show, which he saw as an 8-year-old. It wasn't until his late 20s, though, that Knievel began performing daredevil acts.
In 1965, he formed a troupe called Evel Knievel's Motorcycle Daredevils. This troupe did what would be considered minor in the realm of daredevildom -- jumping through hoops of fire, over dangerous live animals, etc. But the troupe didn't last long. By 1966, Knievel was flying solo, promoting himself, building ramps and preparing whatever else was necessary for his shows.
True to Roone Arledge's vision of giving the unusual in sport a chance to be noticed, Evel Knievel became a national icon under the limelight of the cameras of ABC's Wide World of Sports. It was the perfect venue for Knievel. Three weeks after his 35th birthday, he made his first appearance on Wide World, when he successfully jumped 50 stacked cars at the Los Angeles Coliseum in front of a crowd of 35,000.
That jump led to six more appearances on the program over the next three years. His 1975 jump of 14 Greyhound buses at King's Island amusement park in Ohio remains Wide World's highest rated with a 22.3 rating and 52 percent share. Of his seven appearances on WWOS, five still rank among the top 20-rated shows in Wide World history, earning a rating of 18.0 or better.
Evel Knievel on ABC's Wide World of Sports
Date Place Jumped Result
11/10/1973 L.A. Coliseum 50 stacked cars Successful
02/17/1974 North Richmond Hill, Texas 11 Mack trucks Successful
08/31/1974 Canadian National Exposition 13 Mack trucks Successful
09/8/1974 Snake River Canyon, Idaho Canyon Crashed
05/31/1975 Wembley Stadium, London, England 13 Double-tiered buses Crashed
10/25/1975 King's Island, Ohio 14 Greyhound buses Successful
10/30/1976 The Kingdome, Seattle, Wash. 7 Greyhound buses Successful
Could that be any clearer as to how it wa being televised? If this exchange proves anything it proves that recollections of a 30 year old event can be fuzzy----and that one of us HAS admitted that he was mistaken---it simply was not you.
I cannot find corroboration of your story ANYWHERE. I repeat ANYWHERE.
I think you have it wrong. Perhaps because old memories are hazy or perhaps because you do not like the man. He was a charlatan and a showboat. But does that justify using deception to discredit him?
In other words we should trust you over ABC. You and your "friend" know more than they do as to what they broadcast. And from that we should extrapolate that all the people that thought they knew that it was a rocket not a motorcycle are wrong----because you have a still picrure of Johnny Carson with a motorcycle. You keep insisting I don't believe the picture. The fact is I think it proves nothing.
I agree with the statement tha t you cant trust one source. But I never said you should. Yes I showed an ABC site but I mentione dothers as well. In the end it ii you that wants us to trust one source----the all knowing Mainedish.
Sorry but when you ask me "Who do you trust ABC or a guy in Ohio and a guy in Maine" I have to go with ABC. Especially since all the other sites seem to corroborate their story.
Besides even if we were to give you that it was PPV that means nothing in the end. The point of controversy is "Did Knievel deceive people about whether it was amotorcycle or a rocket." Tony adn I have both mentioned dthat we knew it was a rocket. You have never answered that. Internet searches show sites that mention the incident but NONE of them mentions any deception about what was being used to make the jump. You have NEVER answered that except to show a picture of a motorcycle----Which proves taht Knievel ownd one---so what? He was also photographed with the rocket two years before the jump. But you have never once responded to that.
Either you have an ax to grind or your memory is fuzzy after 30 years. But to insist that you and only you are right against ALL the other evidence strains your credibility----pictures of Johnny aside.
I have never said that one website is correct. I said that the prepoderance of evidence is against you and that a picture of Johnny Carson is not proof. You have never responded.
The issue that you are avoiding here is whether he deceived people on what he was making the jump in. Your response does not even address that. Instead you go on about whether he did his own stunts in a movie. That is pure obfuscation.
I for one am done with this.
Folks, please chill out. Thank you. - Holtz