Too much overscan on HR20

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by mchaney, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. Oct 9, 2007 #1 of 100
    mchaney

    mchaney Godfather

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    I know there's an HR20 section but I don't know if this problem is related to just the HR20 or also other receivers... or DirecTV itself. I notice that with my HR20-100, there's a lot more overscan than I'm used to (with my old cable box). I run it at 1080i through HDMI to a Panasonic TH-50PZ700U plasma. Being a 1080p plasma, I don't think the TV inserts any overscan of its own with a 1080i digital signal coming in. If I check the menu on the plasma, the "HD Size" parameter where you can select 95% or 100% (no overscan) is grayed out, I assume, because it sees a 1080i signal coming in via HDMI. So I guess it's the HR20 causing the overscan? I'm well versed in formats/ratios and I'm sure the TV is set to "Full" so that's not the problem. It looks like it's just losing about 5% to 10% all the way around. The station logos are sometimes touching the bottom of the screen whereas on my Brighthouse HD cable DVR, the same station showed the entire logo with space underneath. I checked and HDNet isn't running their test pattern any more or I'd check that.

    Any place I should be looking? I'm 99.9% sure it isn't the TV as nothing has changed between when I had DimHouse Cable (as I like to call them) versus now: I just unplugged the HDMI cable from the cable DVR and plugged it into the HR20-100. I'd really hate to have to dig out my old VP-30 scaler just to get rid of overscan when I don't need a scaler or any of the audio/video glitches that come with it when I have a 1080i signal going to a 1080p display.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  2. Oct 9, 2007 #2 of 100
    Thaedron

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    I definitely notice the overscan too. Most notably when the screensaver is on. the D* logo floats past the edge of the screen enough to be noticable. This is with my TV's 'just scan' setting. If I use 16x9, the overscan is even worse.
     
  3. Oct 9, 2007 #3 of 100
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Just out of curiousity, is the overscan the same with HDMI and component?
     
  4. Oct 9, 2007 #4 of 100
    pgfitzgerald

    pgfitzgerald Godfather

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    I've been complaining about it for a year. LOL

    Mostly it's my TV's fault, but I do agree that it appears to be worse on the HR20 than my old cable box. And mine appears to be offset horizontally as well.

    We should at least have, on the HR20, the screen centering menu that's in the H21.

    Paul
     
  5. Oct 9, 2007 #5 of 100
    hammond22

    hammond22 Cool Member

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    Yea, I get the overscan to and it seems the picture is offset to the left too much.
     
  6. Oct 9, 2007 #6 of 100
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The biggest thing I've noticed is that on some channels (NBC) the picture is offset. My TV allows me to adjust the screen pixel by pixel in any direction, so I shift mine leftward 5-6 pixels and all is good. Sometimes I need to shift it up to get rid of that annoying audio line (the flashing lines) at the top of the screen.

    I use Native=On and generally have success in having things look the way I expect them.
     
  7. Oct 9, 2007 #7 of 100
    bbank

    bbank New Member

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    I have the exact same Panasonic and I don't think I see any overscan at all. My HR20 is also connected via HDMI. My TV's "HD Size" is set to 100% but I don't believe it is grayed-out. Sorry I'm not at home so I can't verify this. I use Native=On as well. I'll check it out later this evening and post back with additional information if necessary.
     
  8. Oct 9, 2007 #8 of 100
    JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    I've got overscan issues as well, exactly as you describe with my H and HR receivers on LCD and rear projection both. I never had this with the older receivers, and it seems worse to me on the new HD channels than anywhere else, and worse on my rear projection than on the LCD. Here's another interesting tidbit: OTA through the HR20 shows the overscan problem, but not if I change input to OTA through the TV tuner. Leads me to believe the H and HR boxes are the root of the problem.
     
  9. Oct 9, 2007 #9 of 100
    pgfitzgerald

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    That's a very interesting observation! I hadn't noticed that, but I'll certainly check to see if that's the case with my equipment when I get home.

    Paul
     
  10. Oct 9, 2007 #10 of 100
    Elganja

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    Many TV's have options to use "Full resolution" or "Full Pixel" (for my XBR I had to set it to "Full Pixel" otherwise there would be some over scan). This is NOT the default settings on 99% of the TV's out there...

    Why? For the problem Doug mentioned. Some broadcasts have those annoying lines on the sides or the top/bottom of the TV screen.

    I highly doubt your issue is the HR20 itself. I would first find out why the "100%" option is grayed out and go from there ...
     
  11. Oct 9, 2007 #11 of 100
    mchaney

    mchaney Godfather

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    Just figured it out. I just had to "reboot" the TV and now the 100% size option is available. Seems some other operations I was doing had grayed it and once grayed, it won't come back even if you ensure you are in "Full" format. Now that I have the 100% size selected, it's a little better, but not by much. The HR20 is obviously still overscanning quite a bit and it isn't centered either. I get small slivers of noise on the right and bottom while the left and top have a good portion of the image cropped off. This is definitely an HR20 problem.

    Mike
     
  12. Oct 9, 2007 #12 of 100
    JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    Problem with your conclusion is, I have a 1st generation tube (rear projection) TV showing this issue, and only if it comes through the H\HR box.

     
  13. Oct 9, 2007 #13 of 100
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "We" went through all of this back with a CE and the first white GUI IIRC.
    My Sony has a "full pixel" setting for 1080i
    "Overscan" is a function of the TV and not the H/HR-20. Unless you have and use the full pixel setting, every TV has overscan.
    I even had the Sony service tech out during this time since I had problems with the HDNet test pattern.
    One quick look in the service menu and a call to Sony [the tech didn't have an HDMI connection from his test box] and "full pixel" is just that.
    What [I think] is happening is that the H/HR20 is using all of the screen size while "everybody else" has reduced their size for the older TVs with lots of overscan.
    My Sony RPTV [CRT] had a good 10% of overscan, so when I connected my HTPC I had to adjust my 1920 x 1080 desktop down to 1776 x 900 something just to not have the desktop all off the screen.

    FWIW: with my TV the full pixel option is only for 1080i and is "grayed out" under the 720p setting.
     
  14. Oct 9, 2007 #14 of 100
    Rob55

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    In my experience, this is not the case. I have a 46" D92U Sharp and it offers a "full" mode and a "Dot By Dot" mode when receiving 1080i or 1080p. When I'm in full mode, there is some overscan, but when I switch to "Dot By Dot", I get a full image with no noticeable overscan. The same thing happens when I feed 1080p from my Blu-ray player. "Dot By Dot" definitely exposes the full image. I tested it with the DVE test disc and in "Full" mode, there is about 5% overscan. With "Dot By Dot", there's none. This doesn't necessarily prove that the HR-20 output displays the same way, but it does show that the TV properly maps pixel for pixel. Anyway, just my experience.
     
  15. Oct 9, 2007 #15 of 100
    JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    Interesting VOS. It make sense what you say, and I respect your opinions, but how does this explain my observation that I don't have an overscan problem when viewing direct-tuned OTA ? What am I missing ? The TV doing it's own internal adjustments, perhaps ?

     
  16. Oct 9, 2007 #16 of 100
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Do you see those bits running around at the top of the 1080i programs off OTA?
    I think TexasBrit says they're the closed captioning data.
    With "full pixels" set you will see crap that you don't want to.
    Overscan has been in TVs from the beginning. Those that know much more about this talk about the "safe zone" etc. that everything will fit within.
    I look at this like: imagine if there was a black line at the edge of your TV, How many would be complaining about their crappy TV verse using overscan and then not knowing that you were missing part of the image. The picture would full the complete screen so "it must be right". Only when you start to compare other images of the same source do you realize "what you're missing".
    Broadcasters and TV repairmen have know this forever.
     
  17. Oct 9, 2007 #17 of 100
    pgfitzgerald

    pgfitzgerald Godfather

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    I just thought of something...

    My particular TV has service menu adjustments for each and every input, including OTA. It's possible the overscan, h-pos, and v-pos are different for your OTA input than they are for your HR20 input. That would account for what you're seeing.

    Paul
     
  18. Oct 9, 2007 #18 of 100
    JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    Well, one thing for certain, it bugs the tar out of me during this football season with the new info bar across the bottom that scrolls scores, down, distance, and field position. One one side, I am missing the part where it says 1st 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and on the other side, I am missing the last 20 yards of the field position indicator.
     
  19. Oct 9, 2007 #19 of 100
    JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    That's quite possible, except on my TV there is no user adjustment for overscan. Guess I live with it. Not a killer anyway, just an irritation.

     
  20. Oct 9, 2007 #20 of 100
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    WARNING
    Going into your service menu can "brick" your TV if you make the wrong adjustment.
    Since you need to have a screen visible, you may not be able to undo your change until you have a new EPROM to install.

    You have now been warned.
     

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