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Trees are kicking my butt!

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by mopac85, Sep 2, 2005.

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  1. Sep 2, 2005 #1 of 20
    mopac85

    mopac85 Cool Member

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    Aug 20, 2005
    There is one thing that kicks my butt on installations and that is TREES! Is there anyone out there with some kind of secret that they can share when it comes to an installation with a considerable amount of trees. I use a suunto (is that how you spell it?) compass so I do know where the birds are and it has the elevation thing on it..so I can judge the height. My problem isn't with the superdish its those tiny little dish 500s believe it or not that is kicking my butt. I found out the hard way with the superdish and realized that basically all the birds are to the right of the dish (standing behind the dish). You can just about mount those things next to a tree as long as you have the right side clear. Well..then whats the deal with dish 500s? I'm just not getting great signal from the receivers like I should. Today I mounted a dish 500 with some trees hanging around close and got good signal from the birdog but it was weak inside from the receiver. 84% from 119 on trans. 11 110 about the same. I couldn't even hit the locals which is on 110 trans 5..no signal whatsover and all the other channels where "ok". Changed receivers twice..lnbs twice...moved the dish twice and STILL nothing on trans. 5. Whats the problem? I had a 45min install that took 4 hours and its still not right. Anyone have any ideas on that one? A small tree to the left ( that is relatively close to the dish)cant be blocking trans. 5 could it? Dish tech support had no answers. QUESTION: ISNT THE 119 BIRD LOWER IN THE SKY THAN THE 110? basically I'm needing some advice on where to mount when it comes to trees . :shrug:
     
  2. Sep 2, 2005 #2 of 20
    mudder1310

    mudder1310 AllStar

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    May 15, 2005
    With the 500 dish use to compass to give yourself 5* on either side of your birds. The dish itself points right between the two satellites. Once you get the dish pretty well aimed in, snug up the bolts, then gently flex the dish side to side and up and down to see if your signal goes up or down. If it goes up, adjust your dish.

    Also, T5 is a low power transponder. Even a well pointed dish won't have great signal. Check transponders 11 and 12 on both 119 and 110.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2005 #3 of 20
    mopac85

    mopac85 Cool Member

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    Aug 20, 2005
    thanks for the reply. Could it be both receivers dont have the "current" download? I noticed it wasnt the P302 or 310 but I believe it was P2(something). Also..I know this is a bad no no. :eek2: but can rg59 cable really have that much affect on signal? Im using a dp twin with a dp receiver. I know Im supposed to use 6 cable but (well you know how some days are when you install) especially when its a hard cable run.
     
  4. Sep 2, 2005 #4 of 20
    scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    RG6 - period. Especially on Dishpro LNBs - Ideally 2.2GHz swept.. I wouldn't use more than 2-4 feet of RG59 in any DBS install - usually only the TV output if I can help it.
     
  5. Sep 2, 2005 #5 of 20
    Nightlife1970

    Nightlife1970 Legend

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    Aug 10, 2005
    If you have RG-59 in the system I would bet that is the problem.

    I am in Michigan and we deal with trees alot. Elevation on 119 is 31 and 110 is 37 in my area so the dish is set at about 34. Like muddr said I try to leave 5* on either side of the sats and nothing above 30* elevation. That being said the RSP don't like it when it's a NLOS so if you can get it to work you better put it in.

    Also remember that the Suunto can get pulled off by anything metal. If I am looking at just clearing a tree from a spot on the roof, I go to the tree and then look at the spot where I am gonna put the dish. When you look through the site the top number is 180* opposite of what you are looking at. I don't know how many times this has saved me from pointing into a tree.

    Also over time I have gotten to know where a Dish won't work. If it looks like it's close I will put a dish together and use two duals. I will then just hold the dish by hand to see if I get a good signal. I use a channel Master 1008 so I can see both 110 and 119 at the same time.
     
  6. Sep 2, 2005 #6 of 20
    Corwynder

    Corwynder Mentor

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    Feb 6, 2005

    I won't argue. If you're an installer use RG6....but..... I'm no installer. I've got 50ft of RG6 from the dish then I tie into where the cable came in. That's another 50ft of RG59. Once I took my saw and cut down a few branches I started getting some pretty strong signals. Yeah, it bugged me when the tree branch grew another 6 inches and then only in a stiff wind would it knock out 119.
     
  7. Sep 3, 2005 #7 of 20
    mopac85

    mopac85 Cool Member

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    Aug 20, 2005
    thanks for the help guys...I will run 6 to the receiver and see if this doesn't solve my prob. When I said download..I was meaning software version. When you talk about 5* on either side of the birds...would a 12" ruler do? If you get behind the dish and place the ruler up in line with the lnb and split it into 6" on one side and 6" on the other with nothing touching the ruler (trees/obstacles) on both sides would that be an accurate measure for los? Also..Nightlife1970...what about the leveling of the mast when you hold it by hand to see if you can get signal? Isnt it a major pain to keep your hand level for a good reading? Ive heard that about suunto...I try to keep it totally away from everything (metal/dig.cameras etc) to keep that from happening.
     
  8. Sep 3, 2005 #8 of 20
    SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    mopac: If you're trying to install for a living, I strongly recommend you get some professional level training. It is apparent to me that you don't have the basics down yet. :cool:
     
  9. Sep 3, 2005 #9 of 20
    DishNet_Fan

    DishNet_Fan AllStar

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    Oct 14, 2003
    I am having problems getting the even transponders on both 110 & 119. I just had a few branches cleared and it seemed to help 119 a little. However, when I do a check switch, 110 is still an "X" and on the signal strength screen, it lists "wrong satellite" on the even 110's. The line of sight looks pretty clear. Any help?
     
  10. Nightlife1970

    Nightlife1970 Legend

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    Aug 10, 2005
    mopac85,

    When we say 5* on either side we mean this. In my area 110 is at about 212 and 119 is at about 228 compass readings. I try to keep from 208 to 235 clear. You have the one of the better site tools. Lear how to use it, it will make your job alot easier.
     
  11. Nightlife1970

    Nightlife1970 Legend

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    Aug 10, 2005
    Dishnet Fan,

    Check all your connections.
     
  12. mopac85

    mopac85 Cool Member

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    Aug 20, 2005
    Yep..it was the rg59 cable. Ran 6 and the signal went through the roof. :)
     
  13. Nightlife1970

    Nightlife1970 Legend

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    Aug 10, 2005
    I don't even use a mast I just hold it by hand. You can tell that you are pretty close to level holding it. I am just seeing if I can get signal in that spot. Try it once and you will see how it works.
     
  14. DishNet_Fan

    DishNet_Fan AllStar

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    Oct 14, 2003
    Connections look fine. I get a decent signal on the 110 & 119 odds, but a weak signal on the 119 evens and "wrong satellite" on the 110 evens. Maybe I should replace all my cables leading into the switch.
     
  15. Nightlife1970

    Nightlife1970 Legend

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    Aug 10, 2005
    Explain your system more. What LNB's, switches, and receivers do you have?
     
  16. DishNet_Fan

    DishNet_Fan AllStar

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    Oct 14, 2003
    I have a dish 500 pointing at 110/119 and another dish pointing at 61.5 (all legacy lnb's.) I have them running into a sw21 (only get 61.5 on 1 receiver) and am using an 811 and 501. All cables are not more than 50 ft. long. Everything seemed to be working fine up to a few months ago. I figured it was my tree problem, but after trimming the tree, I'm still have problems getting a signal on the even transponders (none on 110 and weak on 119).

    Another thing I noticed is the signals are stronger on the 501 vs. the 811. For example, most times I can get ESPN2 fine on my 501, but no signal on the 811 (119, transponder 4, 40 - 45 signal strength). :confused:
     
  17. Nightlife1970

    Nightlife1970 Legend

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    Aug 10, 2005
    So you have a Legacy Twin on the Dish500 and a Legacy single or dual on the dish pointed at 61.5? If this is the case you may have an LNB problem with that twin.

    It may be time to look into getting a DPP Twin with a DP Dual. This will work with your receivers, and it makes wiring in that wing sat much easier.

    Signal strengths on the 811 will show lower than a 501. The signal may not be lower it's just the 811 shows them as weaker. Most of the time when an 811 is showing 110 strength on 119 transponder 11 a 501 would show 122 or better.
     
  18. DishNet_Fan

    DishNet_Fan AllStar

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    Oct 14, 2003
    Thanks, Nightlife, I figured that was probably an issue. I just upgraded from a 6000 to the 811, that's why I have the legacy equipment. I already bought a single dp lnb and am getting ready to buy a dual dp and dp34. I'll let you know how it turns out...
     
  19. Nightlife1970

    Nightlife1970 Legend

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    Aug 10, 2005
    I asume you mean you have a DP Dual that is a single sat LNB with two outputs, and you are going to get a Twin that is a 2 sat LNB ( used most of the time for 110 & 119 sat locations) with two outputs.
     
  20. DishNet_Fan

    DishNet_Fan AllStar

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    Oct 14, 2003
    Yes, here is the diagram I pulled up...
     

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