Tribune dispute with Dish - Resolved

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by mwdxer, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. Jun 10, 2016 #1 of 247
    mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Info channel (14) next to KCPQ (Fox) and Tribune may take the channel away. I guess this constant war will continue to go on.
     
  2. Jun 10, 2016 #2 of 247
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    it's never ending tug-war ... money fight !
     
  3. Jun 10, 2016 #3 of 247
    BillJ

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    WGN in Chicago has the same warning. They don't have the Cubs anymore and they are giving up being the Chicago CW station so who cares.
     
  4. Jun 10, 2016 #4 of 247
    nmetro

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    Does this mean: http://wgntv.com/2016/05/23/wgn-tv-cw-network-part-ways/

    WGN, now becoming an independent (This 1 September), could that mean dumping WGN America and replacing it with the Chicago signal nationally? One of the reasons why WGN America came to be, was because WGN was affiliated with The WB and then the CW. Which had WGN to substitute programming during prime time. Eventually causing the national and local feed to become vastly different.

    Even without the Cubs, it sill will have other local sports, and variety of programming. Baseball, on local TV, has become a rarity these days, as with many sporting events.

    In another article: Sports would include Black Hawks, White Sox and Bulls. prime time games which the CW prevented WGN from showing during the week. And the article was not clear on what new local programming will be available.

    It would be nice to get WGN 9 O'clock News again. WGN America has so little of a Chicago element, that it is not worth watching.
     
  5. Jun 11, 2016 #5 of 247
    KyL416

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    The differences actually started long before that. It was the syndex rules in the late 80s that caused the split. People may not have noticed unless they had both feeds available (which was really rare), but they had to drop some of the syndicated content that WGN-TV was still airing, along with switching to alternate cycles of other syndicated shows. Oddly enough, they aired Kids WB in pattern while WGN-TV didn't clear Kids WB at all and it aired on a different station in Chicago. TBS went the other route with WTBS and mostly aired content they could clear nationally, but there was still morning public affairs and E/I blocks that only aired in Atlanta. (They eventually split completely when WTBS became Peachtree TV). The old WOR national feed ended up getting a completely different schedule before it folded in the mid-90s.

    WGN is mostly becoming independent because The CW was tired of the constant pre-emptions in the number 3 market. Especially now that they're building a universe with their DC shows where storylines will require them to air in order. All of the other Tribune owned CW stations were actually at risk of losing their CW affiliation too before the affiliation renewal was signed last month. (And this time they had some leverage, because CBS now has an additional station in NYC that could have picked up the CW affiliation if WPIX lost it)

    And no, don't hold your breath on that happening. Tribune already set a plan to turn WGN America into a more widespread general cable network. (Prior to the latest round of renewals, they had very little cable carriage in markets that already had a Tribune owned station like NYC, LA and Philly, while most Chicago cable providers didn't carry it at all until a few years ago) And considering some of the stuff that happens on their original series like Underground, there's no way they can get away with that airing on broadcast TV. WGN also only has the local rights to the sports, so they cannot air them out of market anymore.
     
  6. Jun 12, 2016 #6 of 247
    mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    As much as I would like the old WGN-9 back, I doubt Dish would add that. I still have the Supers and I feel every year, the axe might drop on those as they do not sell the package any longer. That has been a concern of mine for sometime. I have watched the Supers going back to 1985 when they were FTA on my big Dish. KTLA is my favorite. But at least if they are dropped the news is streamed, so now with the internet it would not be total loss. In fact, one night I cast KTLA's 10 O'Clock news from the laptop to the TV using Chromecast and it streams in HD, so the pq is better than off Dish. I had hoped the Supers would be in HD, but again I doubt that will happen.
     
  7. Jun 12, 2016 #7 of 247
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Bye! The stations are down (including three superstations).
     
  8. Jun 12, 2016 #8 of 247
    nmetro

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    Confirmed, Denver KWGN and KDVR are now removed, as well as WGN America.
     
  9. Jun 12, 2016 #9 of 247
    mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Let's see WPIX, KWGN, KTLA, WGN, and KCPQ. Fortunately these stations do stream their news and I can get the local Fox OTA.
     
  10. Jun 12, 2016 #10 of 247
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Tribune Broadcasting Company Blacks Out DISH Customers in 33 Markets; DISH Offers Free Over-the-Air Antennas to Affected Customers
    • Tribune rejects DISH offer to extend contract, including retroactive "true-up" for new rates, which would keep local channels up for benefit of consumers while negotiations continue
    • Tribune attempts "forced bundling" to gain negotiating leverage
    ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- DISH reported today that Tribune Broadcasting Company chose to black out DISH customers' access to 42 local channels in 33 markets across 34 states and the District of Columbia, intentionally harming and exploiting millions of innocent consumers in an effort to raise carriage rates and gain negotiating leverage for an unrelated cable channel with declining viewership, WGN America.

    While DISH works to reach an agreement, the company is offering "over-the-air" antennas at no cost so that customers in affected markets can watch Tribune's local broadcast channels for free.

    "Tribune is demanding an unreasonable rate increase for channels that are available for free over the air," said Warren Schlichting, DISH executive vice president of Programming. "Actions like Tribune's are what drive price increases and feed customer frustration for our industry. With DISH's free antenna, customers will continue to receive Tribune channels for free over the air, along with dozens of other broadcast channels not normally available to pay-TV customers."

    FORCED BUNDLING AT ISSUE
    In addition to asking for significant price increases for local channels, Tribune is attempting to "force bundle" an unrelated and low-performing cable channel, WGN America, with the media conglomerate's local broadcast stations.

    "By attempting to force bundle its cable channel with its local broadcast stations, Tribune is using local viewers as leverage to raise rates for WGN America - a channel that is in decline," said Schlichting. "Tribune is seeking a significant rate increase despite decreasing viewership and recently losing access to Cubs baseball."

    DISH viewership data reveals that viewership on WGN America is down on average more than 20 percent since the channel's launch as a cable network. Many of the shows available on WGN America are available on other channels carried by DISH.

    "Consumers shouldn't have to pay twice for the same programming," said Schlichting.

    DISH OFFER OF EXTENSION, TRUE-UP REJECTED
    DISH was hopeful that it would come to a mutual agreement with Tribune to renew carriage of the media conglomerate's local stations. In that spirit, DISH offered a short-term contract extension to Tribune that would include a retroactive true-up when new rates were agreed upon, and would preserve the ability of DISH customers to access the Tribune local stations while negotiations continued. The true-up would ensure that Tribune was made whole at the new rates for the period of any contract extension.

    "With DISH willing to grant an extension and a retroactive true-up on rates, Tribune had nothing to lose and consumers had everything to gain by leaving the channels up," said Schlichting. "Instead, Tribune chose to turn its back on its public interest obligations and use innocent consumers as bargaining chips."

    DISH Network L.L.C. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ:DISH).

    NEED FOR RETRANSMISSION CONSENT REFORM
    Aggressive attempts to tie together cable channels and local broadcast network stations, when the market power of a local broadcast monopoly is used as a negotiation lever, is called "forced bundling." Typically, forced bundling arrangements lead to price increases out of line with market rates.

    "Tribune's attempt to engineer a forced bundling arrangement of its cable channel and local broadcast stations is a prime example of why Washington needs to stand up for consumers," said R. Stanton Dodge, DISH executive vice president and general counsel.

    "Broadcasters like Tribune use their in-market monopoly power to put overall profits ahead of the public interests they are supposed to serve."

    "Actions like these are precisely the reason that Congress has mandated, and the FCC has opened, a formal process to investigate tactics like this," said Dodge. "We also believe the FCC has the opportunity to investigate remedies like arbitration with interim carriage which could end broadcaster blackouts while preserving the interests of all parties."

    The Federal Communications Commission issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on September 2, 2015. Read the NPRM here: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2015/db0902/FCC-15-109A1.pdf

    Along with other pay-TV companies and public interest groups that form the American Television Alliance (ATVA), DISH has asked the FCC to consider these and other tactics as violating "good faith" negotiations.

    Read ATVA's comments on the NPRM filed with the FCC on Dec. 1, 2015 here: http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=60001347759

    RISING RETRANSMISSION RATES
    Each year, the cost to carry local broadcast stations rises far beyond the rate of inflation, leading to blackouts across the country that affect millions of subscribers of various pay-TV companies. According to SNL Kagan, a leading source on the media industry, broadcast fees burdening pay-TV consumers were as low as $215 million in 2006, soared to $4.9 billion in 2014 and are expected to more than double to reach $10.3 billion in 2021.

    DISH customers can visit DISHPromise.com for more information and to ask the FCC and Congress to end TV blackouts.
    Tribune Broadcasting Company's action affects viewers of various ABC, CBS, CW, Fox, NBC, MyNetwork, and independent stations in 33 markets. For a list of affected stations, visit: https://dishnetwork.newshq.businesswire.com/document-library/tribune-broadcasting-company-stations-impacted
     
  11. Jun 12, 2016 #11 of 247
    Link

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    WGN isn't worth any price increase and I don't imagine most care if they receive it. I'm glad Dish isn't giving into Tribune's demands. I don't know why TV station groups think providers should pay outrageous increases everytime there is a new contract. Some stations warrant a decrease for their performance!
     
  12. Jun 12, 2016 #12 of 247
    nmetro

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    WGN America is a very poor substitute fro WGN, Channel 9, "Chicago's Very Own". The people at Tribune thought people would embrace a channel, because it was called "WGN America". The reason people watched Chicago's WGN was fro sports, movies, the news, and when it was on Bozo. And they watched local special Chicago programming, what little there was. But, WGN America dumped any form of its Chicago identity. Leaving a channel whose programming is no different than on a number of channels already available with Viacom, Comcast/NBC Universal and Time-Warner.

    While I do not like disputes, this one DISH is really in the right. WGN America is not WGN Chicago. And it should not be part of negotiations for a re-broadcast agreement. In this mess, two Denver channels are now blocked, because of a Tribune owned duopoly. Which the FCC should prohibit. Denver has another duopoly with KUSA and KTVD, when Gannet had their dispute, both those channels went.

    Congress, and the FCC, should end carriers having to pay for transmission of supposed free to air TV signals. It is obvious that broadcaster are abusing this to make extra profits. They already air 18 minutes an hour of commercials or more; they run infomercials at all hours of the day and night. And now they are in the process of selling channels above Channel 32 to make even more money.

    After Sinclair, Gannet and now this, with Comcast/NBC Universal looming (retransmist fro NBC owned stations may be pulled into this); it is time our so called representatives finally do something for the citizens of this country, instead of corporate greed and abuse of the spirit of the existing laws.
     
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  13. Jun 12, 2016 #13 of 247
    BillJ

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    Tribune's board is already under pressure from shareholders for its refusal to take seriously a generous offer from Gannett. A bunch of angry customers complaining to the FCC and their congressman isn't likely to help the board either. Dumb managements make dumb decisions.
     
  14. Jun 13, 2016 #14 of 247
    phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Here is one of those opportunities to worry your Congressperson who is up for election in November.

    If you look at the list of local stations involved, this is not easy to ignore. And particularly if you consider
    the number of stations acquired in 2013 from Local TV LLC, a television broadcasting company owned
    by Oak Hill Capital Partners which operated 20 television stations in the United States. This seems just
    doesn't seem consistent with the public interest. But I'm old and remember when the "airwaves" were
    considered as owned by the public and ownership of licenses to use them were tightly limited.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Jun 13, 2016 #15 of 247
    mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    The thing that gets me is, when we lose Network channels, Dish should be able to bring in another network station from a nearby city to cover us until the dispute gets taken care of. If Dish could do that, and subscribers should be pushing for this, then this lets the hot air out of the disputing company. We the subscriber always are the losers in these disputes. The OTA channels are lucky they even get paid by Dish to carry them. If they cannot make it on advertising, then they should go off the air.
     
  16. Jun 13, 2016 #16 of 247
    KyL416

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    Yeah, I take it you have no idea what costs are involved in operating a television station. That would cause nearly every broadcast station to either go off the air, jack up their advertising rates to the point where most local business can't afford it, or drastically reduce their operations:
    - Eliminate local newscasts (the staff in front of and behind the cameras don't work for free, neither is the rent for the studio building, or the massive property taxes if you're one of the few stations who own your studios)
    - Stop streaming of local programming for free (bandwidth isn't cheap, if you want more than 10 people to watch your stream, you have to pay a 3rd party like Akamai or Limelight to handle it)
    - Replace most syndicated programming and newscasts with infomercials (syndicated programming isn't free, you either have to pay for them in advanced or agree to a deal where the distributor keeps most of the ad revenue)
    - Get rid of their translators (the electricity and rent to operate those sites aren't free)
    - Replace subchannel networks with infomercials and leased programming (like what many independents and low power stations in major markets like NYC, LA and Philly already do)

    As for them managing to do it in the past, that's before there was tons of cable channels and additional networks creating bidding wars each time the rights to major events and programming are up for renewal, plus with less channels and no DVRs, ad revenue was on broadcast TV was a lot more valuable. (Even with VCRs, people still saw the products being advertised as they fast forwarded) A lot of tower sites and studio locations that were originally built in the middle of nowhere back in the 60s and 70s are also now in prime real estate locations, resulting in land lords flat out gouging stations for rent. Electric rates were a lot cheaper, you had a lot less computerized equipment, and business class internet connections weren't a thing.


    You want an example of what happens when stations don't get retrans fees or have the ability to draw from their sister cable channels? Look at Canada. Stations went off the air entirely, others cancelled local newscasts and replaced them with one regional newscast that ignores everything except the main cities. (Imagine the entire Northeast and Mid-Atlantic being covered by the same newscast, and they only have a half an hour a day to cover the events in the entire region) Heck this past December, CHCH fired the majority of their news staff after the CRTC eliminated one of the local TV funds and replaced most of their programming with infomercials and 20/20 reruns (the conglomerates like Bell, Rogers and Corus make deals with entire studios, so independents like CHCH are stuck with whatever's left or on the verge of cancellation). CBC flat out lost their NHL rights, Hockey Night in Canada does air on CBC stations, but officially since Rogers keeps all the ad revenue, you weren't watching CBC, you were watching a seperate CRTC licensed network owned by Rogers who's sole purpose is producing Hockey Night in Canada telecasts.
     
  17. Jun 13, 2016 #17 of 247
    phrelin

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    The thing is the network broadcast affiliate is a anachronistic economic model. It made sense in 1958 based on a concept the included the government licensing our airwaves. It was questionable in 1996 because of cable/satellite service. But it clearly is a dead man walking in 2016.

    I don't see why we have to keep subsidizing with what is essentially a tax on our satellite/cable subscriptions by corporations like Tribune. Right now if your CBS affiliate is a Tribune station and you really want to watch something on it, you can use the internet to watch on a CBS All Access subscription. And you need to use that only if you don't have OTA access.

    Regarding local news coverage, for those of us who live in the far reaches of a DMA like the San Francisco Bay Area DMA, we have never had local news from a broadcast television station. What I know is that at least one broadcast channel will continue to provide news.
     
  18. Jun 13, 2016 #18 of 247
    KyL416

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    I think you're underestimating what regional newscasts are like in Canada. At least the San Francisco stations are usually within 100 miles of you. In Canada it's very different. i.e. a newscast covering an entire province like what many stations do in BC and Saskatchewan. Or in the Maritimes, one newsroom serving New Brunswick, PEI, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador. Back before the local TV fund was eliminated, all the commercial stations had local newscasts for these areas, and there were many independently owned stations covering local communities. Heck as part of their cuts CBC eliminated their transmitters in areas not marked for a digital conversion. (Up in Canada their digital transition wasn't nationwide, it was just for the largest cities)

    As for San Francsico, if it wasn't for the fact that those stations are O&O's getting money from their corporate siblings, or as part of a larger company, they probably would have been priced out of their studios years ago or had to drastically cut back to continue to afford to operate in the city. Major markets with O&O's would be safe, it's every other market in between that would have a problem. (i.e. Philly and NYC would be fine, but surrounding areas like Scranton, Binghamton, Hartford and Harrisburg might not)


    The FCC is already cracking down on duopolies and LMAs used to get around the ownership cap, but it's backfiring, instead of a 3rd party getting control of the second network and creating additional competition, since the FCC has no authority over programming decisions, companies like Sinclair are just taking the affiliation and all the syndicated programming that aired on the channel and keeping it in house on a subchannel, that subchannel gets to keep their cable and satellite placement, while the former station's new owner (many times a shell company operating at arms length from the previous owner) "voluntarily" gives up retrans consent and must carry status while they wait to cash out in the auction and shutdown entirely.


    As for why they get paid, the cable companies kind of brought it on themselves. Running attack ads against satellite in the 90s bragging how they had locals and satellite didn't, and then after deregulation charging $20 or more for a package that contained nothing but locals, shopping, religious and public access when just a decade prior the same cost would get you all the basic cable channels like CNN, Nickelodeon, MTV and TNT. It gave the locals leverage in their claim that they bring something of value and should get compensated when the retrans system was setup, but now it's getting out of control.

    Should they get compensated? If you look at the ratings, they still bring something a lot of viewers watch, having a popular daytime or primetime network show as a leadin helps with local news ratings, and when you look at the operational costs, even with ad revenue, it won't be free to provide unless they somehow pass laws that force other companies, not even related to the broadcast industry, to make things available for free to stations like rent for studio and transmitter locations, and electricity for both sites before you even get to the programming costs and salaries of employees. (There's a reason why even with their government funding, PBS stations still have to have month long pledge drives every few months and all those extra workers are usually volunteers)

    How much is a lot more complicated. Should it be a flat rate per channel? Flat rate per market? But what about larger markets that have more than just the big 5 and PBS? Should the independents and Spanish and niche ethnic stations get the same as the station that shows NFL every Sunday in the fall or the channel that has the Super Bowl that year? Who gets to decide what is worth more? Say you do it per network, should Spanish stations in markets with large hispanic populations like NYC and LA get compensated more than the Spanish stations operating in a smaller market like Hartford? Say it's done by ratings, what do you do when Nielsen has a screwup that they correct after the fact like what happened with ABC and NBC a few years ago? Should stations that have multiple network affiliations via subchannels be able to double dip? How do the stations that currently select must carry factor in (i.e. like the bulk of the independents currently do)? Do they now get to join this flat rate system? It's a lot easier said than done.
     
  19. Jun 13, 2016 #19 of 247
    nmetro

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    KyL416,

    50 years ago, New York had these commercial stations: 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11. Main PBS 13. Secondard PBS 21, 25 and 31. Two Spanish 41, and 47. That was it.

    Commercial time was approximately 11 minutes per hour. All stations with the exception of Channel 2, signed off. WCBS, would sign off, run a quick test pattern and sign on again.

    Cable TV was for those who lived far enough away from the Empire State Building, to improve the signal. You had a whopping 12 channels. Adding 3 and 30 from Hartford, 8 from New Haven. 12 was channel 21. And 6, was left for local use and sports from Madison Square Garden (Rangers and Knicks). That was it.

    There was still syndicated programming, movies and even live locally produced programming, including children's programming.

    There were not retransmission fees, informercials at all hours of the day or night, etc. Only 11 minutes per hours of commercials, though Channel 9 sometimes pushed that limit.

    Newscasts? 2, 4, 7 had a short morning news, evening news at 6, national news at 6:30 and news at 11. Channels 5 and 11, news at 10. But, not what you see today, with an average station running 4 - 5 hours of news per day.

    The interesting thing, about 50 years ago, there was more variety on the 6 New York commercial station, that was airs on many cable channels today. Hence, why those digital sub-channels are so popular.

    During the years, the NAB changed the dynamic. First, by getting the right to air commercials that could last much longer than the standard 60 seconds; informercials were born. Then, getting teh right to air them all hours of the day or night. Next, get Congress to allow them to collect re-transmission fees on an OTA signal, something you can get "free" in your home. After teh digital conversion, people in fringe areas, now have a problem, before they could get a signal, now they can't So what was "free" is not free any more. Over time, the stations were able to get now close to 20 minutes an hour commercial time, nearly double that of 50 years ago. So, now they have commercials, informercials and re-transmission fees. Over time all those independently owned TV stations, or smalll groups of them, have less and less owners, as now there maybe less than a dozen companies which own all the TV stations, with some exceptions. And these media companies own cable channels. So, here we are, Tribune saying you want your local TV station, you have to pay fro WGN America too.

    But, there is one more cash cow yet to come. The FCC needs more spectrum fro smart phones. so, the plan is to sell every TV station signal from 32 and up. The media companies are going to make a mint over this. And what happens? Well, the pan is to force stations either back to the VHF band and force stations to double up with others. The media companies will be able to kill two birds with one stone. Get much more money and pretty much shut down channels like MeTV. Forcing people to watch cable channels, as TV will effectively revert to what we had 50 years ago.

    So, for example, in Denver, channels: 31 (32), 2 (34, 4 (36), 12 (48), 59 (44), 38 (38), 53 (45), 41 (41) 23 (47), Will all have to find new homes (there is a total of about 35 sub channels on these station). And 31, 2, 4 and 12 are FOX, CW, CBS and PBS. The rest are religious and Spanish channels. Denver only has 7, 9, 14 (15), 6 (18), 20 (21), 50 (26), 25 (28) and these have a combined 22 channles and subchannels. 10, 16, 26 (31), and 28 are low power. So, in Denver, to keep all the main channels, a lot of sub channels will vanish. And, not just in Denver. There are no plans, so far, to sell channels 14 - 31 for spectrum; but it has not been ruled out.

    And Congress/FCC/NAB, cable giants, cell phone companies and media giants are planning fro a major sift with the TV spectrum.

    So, OTA may become a limited species, by design. Forcing people to pay for streaming or cable. The CBS On Demand channel is a test to see if people are willing to pay for a channel they get free. How? A new "Star Trek" series which will run one episode on CBS and the rest will run on CBS on Demand. If this works, then a lot of shows people watch OTA for, will go to this model for other networks. And, not just scripted shows, but also sporting events. They will use the excuse of less OTA spectrum. And, all those cable and phone companies are chomping at teh bit providing Internet connectivity when all this begins to come together.

    Sorry, fro the long post, but there is to this than just another dispute. TV, as we know it, may ironically only exist what mounts to the VHF spectrum; where it all started in the 1930s.
     
  20. Jun 14, 2016 #20 of 247
    inkahauts

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    I think the biggest problem is the networks wanting money from the locals which caused the locals to want money from the cable Company and the networks also get money from cable in their O&O territories. It's all ridiculous.

    I dont buy they need the fees or they'd be out of business. They need to change their business so they can get by without the fee which is interlude doable.
     

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