Tried to add 4K equipment...odd response from CSR

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by nickff, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. nickff

    nickff Legend

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    I am considering moving to 4k equipment and called to see how it works. They said I had two options:

    1) New genie and new client. Only the TV attached to the client would be able to display Directv 4k content.

    2.) Some new Genie 2 server thing...both TVs would be able to receive and display Directv 4k content.

    I don't understand why option 1 exists at all...why would the new genie not be able to send 4k content to the TV it is attached to?

    Where things got odd, was that the CSR said I should not go with option 2 as there are numerous bugs and she would not recommend I get the new Genie 2 thing.

    Thoughts? Is the new Genie that bad?
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    #1 - Yes, DIRECTV released a Genie that has no ability to directly display 4K. A client would be required for 4K.
    #2 - See other threads for complaints about the Genie 2. A client would be required for each TV (4K or not). The system is clients only so your other receivers would need to be replaced by clients.
     
  3. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    read "hs17-100" thread
    search for "hr54" - 1000s post with your question (believe me - it posted that many times !))
     
  4. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    "Odd" is a good word to use. I'm beginning to think D* is incapable of making a DVR that puts out 4K. I know that is not impossible, Dish makes a DVR that puts out 4K. But, you were lucky, you got a CSR that knew the truth and spoke it! That is really "odd"!

    Rich
     
  5. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    The pro argument for headless has always been that 4K is an evolving standard and its cheaper & easier to update & replace the clients vs updating & replacing the servers.

    Probably a reasonable argument, but it suffers in the usability department. Besides, 4K standard is pretty stable now. Also, seeing as a tiny percentage of the population calls in to retention to get deals, most people are going to pay whatever fee DirecTV throws at them.

    Genie 2.1 $50 upgrade + $50 truck roll
    Genie 2.2 $55 upgrade + $50 truck roll
    Genie 3.0 $100 upgrade + $50 truck roll
    etc.

    And tell people they would get free upgrades if they did the protection plan lol... and milk even more money out of them. DirecTV likes bogus fees. I heard a rumor on the Genie 4.0 they are going to introduce a monthly lease fee for the detachable power cord :).
     
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  6. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    No the 4K standard is not stable yet, 4Kp120 is coming. Which will require HDMI 2.1. If Dish introduced a Hopper 4 tomorrow it would be obsolete in a couple years, while an HR54 could serve a future 4Kp120 client (only one, but still) in 2025.
     
  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Meanwhile that "Hopper 4" that you are labeling as obsolete would still be able to serve multiple clients. Even the Hopper 3 can serve multiple 4K clients simultaneously. DIRECTV needs to match that (or beat it - two on the HS-17 isn't multiple enough).
     
  8. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    HDMI 2.1 isn't a "real" standard in the sense that all other versions of HDMI have been. It's more of a "this is our dream spec with decades of future proofing built in". It's actually going to be a confusing disaster imo the way they are doing it, a lot of the enhancements are optional and are going to come out peace meal. Plus we'll need new 48Gbps cables. 4KP120 on TV isn't going to happen I don't think. Too much bandwidth. How many channels are 1080P/24? :).
     
  9. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    can you add real model, not just use the marketing jargon
     
  10. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    If you go by "how many channels are 1080p24" then I guess you are saying we will never have any 4K channels at all.
     
  11. Mauiguy

    Mauiguy Cool Member

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    Or one could wait until 8K comes along or just wait until something else comes along. Getting 4K for one or two channels, (one of which is a pay per view channel) is simply not a very economical decision. I realize there are many here that want to be on the cutting edge and I understand. However for "Joe Sixpack" it is not worth it to change every two to three years.
     
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  12. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    nay, 8K would be exponential increase in all infrastructure, so expect it as very narrow niche, perhaps SUHD BR discs and may be some streaming service by huge [$B] company like Amazon
     
  13. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Betcha someone said something similar about 4K.

    Rich
     
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  14. codespy

    codespy Go Pack Go!!!! DBSTalk Club

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    Foxconn building new plant in SE Wisconsin- on the production line will be 8K next generation displays for variety of products, including Sharp TV sets......
     
  15. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    Well... a few years ago I thought we'd at least have the big primetime shows like TBBT in 4K and special events like the superbowl or Olympics in 4K.

    All that's really happened so far is that if you go to the stores, its mostly 4K TVs now. DirecTV is showing the Olympics in 4K and a few other things. For most folk, the 4K is coming from Netflix and Amazon via streaming.

    I have a UHD player and I know of maybe 2 or 3 other people that do, but it doesn't seem to be that common.

    Not gonna say never, but no 4K channels have been announced yet, so we're a long ways off.

    Do any cable providers offer 4K yet?

    Anyways, going back to the HDMI 2.1 thing...

    * 10K? Not anytime soon
    * Dynamic HDR? Soon
    * Display Stream Compression? See 10K
    * High Frame Rates? UHD discs are 24fps right now, there is only 1 60fps disc...
    * eArc? Probably soon even though > 5.1 has not really taken off in a big way
    * Variable Frame Rates, Quick Media Switching, etc? A few nice things in there like QMS, but hardly anything anybody is chomping at the bit for.

    So HDMI 2.1 is mostly a "people are sick of buying new HDMI cables, so these new 48Gbps ones will be good for many, many, many versions to come". More of laying the ground work for lots of bandwidth.

    If you look at what all the versions of HDMI have had in the spec and what is actually implemented... :).

    There aren't many 1080p24 channels because they require a lot of bandwidth that just isn't there... think about how much bandwidth 8K @ 120fps @ 4:4:4 requires :).
     
  16. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant, just because TVs will go higher in resolution doesn't mean broadcasts will follow. Heck, little has followed TVs to 4K yet. A lot of people like to compare 4K TVs today to the first couple years of HD and say "well there weren't many HD channels back then so 4K is coming along fine" but that comparison is a red herring. 4K TVs are selling FAR faster than HDTVs were at this stage in their life cycle because HDTVs have disappeared off the market except for the smaller sizes. SDTVs hung around for well over a decade after HDTVs came out because of a production cost difference that doesn't exist for 4K TVs.

    If you look at these graphs, we're at about 30% of households having a 4K TV in the US already. Compare with the HDTV graph below it (from Nielsen) where HDTVs finally took off ten years after they were introduced, and we hadn't even reached 25% by the start of 2009. Based on that graph, we probably didn't hit 30% of households with HDTVs until H2 2009. There were tons of full time HD channels in H2 2009. Some providers carried more than others, but all of them had some HD by then. There are zero full time 4K channels today and none on the horizon. We're likely to reach nearly 50% 4K penetration before the first full time 4K channel arrives. So when 8K TVs come out, and likely follow a similar adoption curve because the production cost will be pretty much the same at 60" and larger, we shouldn't expect to ever see 8K channels just because people have 8K TVs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    4K is most definitely still a niche for content. 8K won't be a niche for TVs because there won't be any difference in production cost for large sizes, so like HDTVs disappeared for < 50 inch TVs, in a few years 4K TVs will quickly disappear for < 60 or 65 inch sizes. But I agree with P Smith, 8K will be a niche within a niche for content, other than for those crazy Japanese who love tech for the sake of tech.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Betcha someone is watching SD on a 8K set and is claiming that it looks better than SD on a 4K set. :)
     
  19. codespy

    codespy Go Pack Go!!!! DBSTalk Club

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    I agree Slice, I was just reporting the news of what’s happening by me with 8K screens that will be in production in the near future. It’s a huge investment, but they must feel it’s worth it to go in that direction.
     
  20. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    you are just not aware for a market where is 8k/10k TV will be used - medicine, automation, etc
     

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