Trying YouTube TV

Discussion in 'Internet Streaming Services' started by Rich, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Jan 8, 2020 #181 of 264
    wmb

    wmb Godfather

    737
    92
    Dec 17, 2008
    My recollection back when I was with DirecTV, they tried to do that with ad slots. Vaguely, I think the traditional broadcast networks leave open slots for their OTA locals to sell and fill. I'm not sure, but I think cable does a better job filling them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    B. Shoe likes this.
  2. Jan 9, 2020 #182 of 264
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

    52,324
    2,669
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Most cable channels have had slots for "cross channel promotion" or other local inserts for decades. I remember watching back in the 1980s late at night when channels would transmit a block of ads to the cable systems (usually overnight early Sunday or Monday morning). Viewers would see a slate explaining the ad, a countdown and the ad. The cable system would record the block, break it up into commercials overlay their channel information and insert it into the "local insert" slots on the cable channels. While watching in the daytime you would hear a cue for their automation to start the insert (usually a burst of touchtones). On some channels you could see cues in the vertical blanking interval where closed captioning was broadcast.

    Over the years (if one was watching closely) one could see evidence of these local inserts - usually the channel number or cable/satellite company name overlaid or tagged on a cross channel promotional spot. The ad would say "DISH channel 138" or "DIRECTV channel 245" on a promotion for a program on TNT. These local inserts were also used for paid ads and in recent years both DIRECTV and DISH have been inserting targeted ads using customer's DVRs. Cable and satellite companies have decades of experience filling that space.

    Broadcast TV networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, CW, etc) have always had time during their network hours for the local affiliates. Even during the Superbowl there is time set aside for the local affiliates to use those slots. These local inserts are filled by the stations, not the satellite company or cable system (the laws that allow retransmission of local broadcast signals prevent editing by the cable or satellite company). In rare cases such as the early years of FOX broadcasting the cable system would become the local affiliate and be able to fill the local ad space. Additional broadcast stations and subchannels have moved most broadcast networks on to actual OTA stations.

    Back when television and radio began streaming their content there were some "rights issues" that led to prohibitions on what could be streamed - not just programming that was purchased by the affiliate for in market OTA broadcast, but commercials and production libraries. Often when you see a local station stream their newscasts you will see "we are in commercial" announcements instead of the locally transmitted advertisements due to rights issues. They could fill those slots with ads that they have the right to stream.
     
    B. Shoe and wmb like this.
  3. Jan 9, 2020 #183 of 264
    wmb

    wmb Godfather

    737
    92
    Dec 17, 2008
    James, thanks for the background. At this point, my biggest question is who is leaving money on the table, and why? Does You Tube/Google have the right to fill the slot and hasn’t sold the ad, or is it something else?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. Jan 9, 2020 #184 of 264
    B. Shoe

    B. Shoe Mentor

    351
    132
    Apr 3, 2008
    Illinois
    This, coming from experience, is correct. During my tenure in local news, during our infancy of Internet and streaming newscasts during events of severe weather or breaking news, we never had rights to stream a majority of our ad content. We literally had to have someone there switching the feed to a slate back and forth from the actual broadcast during breaks (Note: That person was me.)

    I think that has changed quite a bit now, but there's still some premise to that today, i'd wager.
     
  5. Andrew Sullivan

    Andrew Sullivan Active Member

    469
    107
    Dec 7, 2017
    How do you delete a recorded episode?
     
  6. espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

    352
    157
    Oct 13, 2003
    You can’t; it ages out of your library after 9 months.

    It’s not a DVR in the traditional sense where you have to deal with space and timer constraints. Episodes get marked as “Watched” and that’s how you keep your place in a series, very similar to how you watch series on a service like Netflix or Hulu.
     
  7. Andrew Sullivan

    Andrew Sullivan Active Member

    469
    107
    Dec 7, 2017
    It seems like if it can detect record and watched it should be simple to include a delete function. All those watched shows just clutter up the screen.
     
  8. tcatdbs

    tcatdbs Icon

    645
    8
    Jul 10, 2008
    You can just remove it from "added", and it will disappear from New in library. That's pretty much the main screen I use other than live.
     
    crkeehn likes this.
  9. 1948GG

    1948GG Icon

    1,250
    50
    Aug 4, 2007
    So I thought I'd give it a try again, after the two week tryout 2 months ago; I've already sent three feedback messages pointing out major programming errors with their system, this after some 2 hours trying to set it up. Here's a couple:

    1. Trying to set up a custom live listing, their system randomly swaps the channels around without any user intervention. I did figure out that if I backed out of the listing page after moving each channel listing, that reduced *but did not eliminate* the system continuing it's random swapping things around. One minute using this 'feature' would have shown the programmer or their supervisor that there were problems. In making some half dozen changes it took close to an hour changing things around to where it settled down.

    2. In setting up the family share system, while trying to add members from your contacts list, the program skips huge parts of your contacts, which means you can't add them. What gives with this??? Makes no sense. Yes, I did figure a way around this error, but I shouldn't have to. But google/gmail is screwed up as well, by linking their system so tightly is a big mistake, so now one has two systems that don't integrate. What a mess.


    3. When playing back a dvr'd program that is is being recorded, you get a 'join live' or 'start from beginning' query; fine. But the if you exit out of the playback, like jump to another channel or exit yttv then come back to the recording, it hasn't remembered where you left off. Huh? I haven't seen any dvr system that didn't remember, period, and that includes all the tveverywhere apps out there, of which my poor roku is jam packed with >100 of. Now, when the program has ended, it does recall when you left off, but apparently not if the show is still running. I'll check this some more but you don't get a 'play from where you left off' query. 'Resume from last watch' is available on the roku app, but not on the android app, then again, on the roku you don't get a 'start from beginning' consistently, apparently only when selecting fro the 'live' guide. In short, it's all messed up. They should have a programmer assigned to making sure the user interface is consistant across all platforms, period. Then again, on the roku the audio looses sync with the video when one 'resumes'. Neat.

    4. Even though I have 3 'family member' the system doesn't give one the choice of which subaccount to choose when logging in, and if one tries to change which account to go to after logging in, one gets caught in a 'free trial' 'give us you credit card' loop. Again, huh??? This is the first service I've seen where one can't change profiles easily on the fly. I'll keep trying but....

    5. I think I saw comments on this, but a live grid guide that first, doesn't go back from the current date/time and only goes forward 6 hours is pathetic. Whoever thought this was acceptable needs to join the unemployment line.

    Bamtech. I warned people about them on psvue. If it wasn't for pbs I wouldn't have even tried this again. I added more problems as I went along, but I find another mess up every 10 minutes or so.

    Final thought before I add more problems; I love that when one tries to send a complaint that the system gives you one of sometimes one or up to five or so areas, instead of allowing you to specify. It's like saying 'hey, these are the only areas we're going on look at, forget about anything else'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  10. B. Shoe

    B. Shoe Mentor

    351
    132
    Apr 3, 2008
    Illinois
    I wish I was of more assistance on your struggles. I haven't experienced trouble like anything you're describing with Family Share, separate logins, DVR memory, etc.
     
  11. 1948GG

    1948GG Icon

    1,250
    50
    Aug 4, 2007
    A fair number of the problems, particularly in the 'family share' system was directly caused by google systems not working right. I finally got someone at yttv to respond, halfway through checking this out we could get nothing to work right then all of a sudden things started working. Gee, no kidding. Google. But any company or part of a company that relies on another to run their system has to take that with a grain of salt about the size of Lots wife. In other words, watch them like a hawk. And if you don't, beware.
     
  12. 1948GG

    1948GG Icon

    1,250
    50
    Aug 4, 2007
    So after all the work I did with yttv, both on my own and with their support folks, and had everything working including the two family shares, i start it up this morning and... all that I did yesterday has been eliminated/deleted. Wtf???

    Bizzarly, the android app seems to have access to all the programming and changes I did yesterday, but my roku doesn't. So trying to nudge things from one platform to the other, may take all morning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  13. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

    1,523
    425
    Oct 8, 2005
    Sorry to hear you are having these issues. My experience so far with YTTV has been very good with no problems at all...”knock on wood”. Perhaps it is a platform thing? I use FireTV devices (many different kinds), Nvidia Shields, and ATV 4k’s. I don’t do Roku...
     
  14. espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

    352
    157
    Oct 13, 2003
    Do you have search and watch history paused?

    Manage search & watch history - YouTube TV Help

    If you tell Youtube not to save your watch history, that impacts your ability to resume from last playback point because you're telling them not to save that information.

    I'm assuming you went through this process?

    Important note: You have to use a consumer Google account for family sharing. If you're trying to use a G Suite or old GApps for Domains account, you can't use family sharing from that account.

    There have been YTTV engineers who have posted about this on Reddit. It's intentionally designed to nudge people away from time-based guide programming selection. They want you to use search and to build a catalog of things to watch. The grand plan for this service is to take the content that is delivered linearly on standard cable/satellite networks and bridge it into a catalog closer to what Netflix offers. That's their market differentiator -- they're not just trying to recreate the same cable/satellite experience over the Internet.

    Any chance you're running Pi-Hole or another DNS filtering service? There are a couple lists that are a bit too aggressive in their Google domain block list, and people have reported some odd behaviors with YoutubeTV with those lists enabled.

    I'm using iOS (iPhone / iPad), AppleTV 4K, Apple TV Gen4, RokuTV, and Roku Stick+. I haven't run into any problems that you've mentioned.
     
  15. 1948GG

    1948GG Icon

    1,250
    50
    Aug 4, 2007
    'Grand Plan'? Gotta be kidding me. What are you supposed to do when a network or station changes their schedule, or what about what I ran into today, when a new program is announced yet since it doesn't exist yet or in the past, you can't add it to your dvr? Sounds like these programmers haven't ever watched a day of American TV in their lives, definately never spent a second in a tv station or network master control room.

    After I cleaned up the mess that happened last night while I was asleep, while watching today I saw the 'live guide' channel list change its listing around at least 5 times. Back to the phone app I go and change it back, then an hour later it changes yet again. This happend on all three of the sub-accounts I have spent the last 2 days trying to keep from getting messed up by the 'system'. I think I'll make a fourth and simply let the system screw around with it until it gets tired, but i'll bet it will simply delete it yet again like it did yesterday.
     
  16. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

    1,523
    425
    Oct 8, 2005
    Yeah, YTTV is not trying to recreate the cable/sat experience...and for me personally that’s a good thing. If you are looking to recreate your current cable/sat experience YTTV simply might not be for you. I’m not trying to minimize the issues this individual is having. Clearly the service has not met his expectations. But my experience has been the exact opposite, it has been rock solid for me...maybe I’m just lucky.
     
  17. espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

    352
    157
    Oct 13, 2003
    It depends on the situation. YTTV is a little different in that they are saving a 24x7 constant stream from every channel that they keep for 9 months. You have to add things to the "DVR" to watch them later because that's how the contracts are structured with the content providers. Since they always have the 24x7 recording to work with, they can adjust the timers retroactively since they are just changing index values of where to start and stop playback.

    Say I have the 10pm news added to my library, except one night the news is delayed because the football game before it ran over time. YTTV tracks the game times for all major sports leagues to not only automatically extend recordings, but also to shift index start times for programs that air after it. So even though the football game ran until 10:20, when I select the news from my library I still get the complete 30 minutes of the delayed news cast.

    This is definitely a gap in the current system. If it's not a popular show on a network, or an event that is in listing going about 2 weeks out, it's currently a gap that you can't find it to add it to your library.

    That's really weird -- I hope they are able to get that straightened out for you.
     
  18. 1948GG

    1948GG Icon

    1,250
    50
    Aug 4, 2007
    From what both myself and the yttv customer service person saw the other day, a large part of the problems are at the doorstep of google. It seems to have settled down yesterday and so far today, but that doesn't mean I don't run into glitches in the system, like....

    Playing dvr selections, either while the program is still being recorded or was completed a week back. After starting up the selection, the audio is out of sync with the video, every time. It seems the only way to 'resync' it is to 'bump' the rewind just a bit and then things are back in sync. This is on the latest f/w 9.2 roku's, roku4 and ultra. On the android app, what one gets is a little auto skip forward and everything is in sync, can't tell in the second it takes before doing that if it's out if sync before the little skip. But it's a kinda dead giveaway that the folks doing the android app saw the sync problem and the quick fix was the 'little skip', but the folks reviewing the roku app (I may be going out on a limb thinking there's any management review going on here) somehow don't see it, or can't fix it.
    Not a BIG problem but interesting that the android app folks saw and put in a quick fix and the roku/streaming console folks didn't.
     
  19. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

    1,523
    425
    Oct 8, 2005
    Watched all the NFL games last weekend and this weekend on YTTV. It was flawless for me and the PQ was excellent.
     
  20. 1948GG

    1948GG Icon

    1,250
    50
    Aug 4, 2007
    A couple things notable so far; zero buffering, and the video, on both 1080p and 4k sets is particularly way above average (the system is reporting 720p/1080p depending on the channel) but the chroma level has a bit of 'punch' to it that reminded me of the early DirecTV standard definition mpeg2 circa 1994 before they started squeezing the streams to add to the channel count. The resulting video was the best I'd seen out of a station or network studio, and this after it had gone through the entire transmission chain to the home. Their pq wouldn't achieve this level, imho, until mpeg4/ka HD transmissions in the early 2000's
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements