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Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by t_h, Jun 4, 2010.
My SL= Keep All
Kids SL= Keep 5
KAM is a great feature implemented as is, and I have no interest in changing it. If you don't want them deleted until space is needed, don't limit the episodes kept. I am baffled by the fact that this concept seems so hard to grasp. You tell it to keep 5, and that's what it does. Shocking, huh?
For any series that I care about, I set to keep all. I only use the KAM for my kids' stuff, as they run repeatedly all day. I set the KAM to 5, and there are always 5 episodes of the show. Perfect.
The beauty of this is you HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL!! How can you complain about something that is a result of a choice you made? :shrug:
Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote. I already said that everything on my DVRs is set to keep everything.
I already gave a counter-example of when my "COMPLETE CONTROL" was taken away. Everyone is always at the mercy of bad guide data.
Let me attempt to explain my idea in a different way:
1. A recorded program is a scarce resource in the sense that it is not easily replaced.
2. A DVR has a fixed amount of space.
3. The cost of a 0% free space DVR is the same as a 100% free space DVR.
4. Deletion is a permanent, irreversible decision - i.e. destruction.
To me, the decision to destroy a scarce resource, when there is no need to do it, and no cost not do it, is not the optimal way to manage resources.
I don't use KAM for space management. I use it to limit the number or episodes it records of a particular show. With MRV, I have access to 350 hours of HD recording, space is not an issue. But for simplicity for my kids, KAM set to 5 is great, even if I have 99% free space. If you don;t like it, don't use it. Again, the beauty of choice.
The problem is that there is a third command in the mix: Record All Episodes. (Or record first run only or reruns only, it doesn't really matter). The point is after you have 5 episodes recorded and the sixth one is coming up, there are three commands that need to be addressed. The DVR is being told to record this episode, keep at most 5 episodes, and keep them all until the user deletes them.
It is impossible for the DVR to do all three of these things. So it ranks the commands in priority order of record the episode, keep at most 5, keep until user deletes them. Obviously some people feel the keep unitl user deletes should have the first priority.
The solution is there needs to be opitons such as "always record" and "record only if below max number to keep" that go with the series link, however you would choose to word them. Then the user can choose whether the 6th episode should be recorded over one of the other ones or not.
Still fighting that same battle, Tom? Good to see you posting again.
recycle bin is best way to do this, wish it would happen.
I don't. I hated that I deleted something on my Tivo and it wasn't gone unless I deleted it again. In the two years I had my Tivo with a recyle bin, I reclaimed something once. And if I had a confirm to delete rather than it just dumping the stuff in the bin, I wouldn't even have had that.
And, you are assuming that items deleted by the system would go in the recycle bin. I don't think they did on the Tivo but I don't recall ever having that situation.
Unless they implement it so it is not in my face (the Recycle bin on Tivo takes up space on the Now Playing List) and keep the confirm for delete, I would vote against a recycle bin. But my only experience with it is the Tivo implementation and I hated that. (I tried it out a few times. It never remembered the settings for saving a recording. Just dumped it back with a setting that allowed the Tivo to delete it immediately. To save longer, you had to change the settings on the recording.)
The thing that scares me is that "universal playlist" or whatever you call it. The other night I started to delete something and read the dialog box for deletion and it said something like: Do you want to delete this program, 24?
The damn thing had skipped down a row from what I just had finished watching and I was just a click away from deleting 100 24s. I would have had to wait for NetFlix to come out with this year's series. That's the biggest bug I see about MRV. I took one of my HRs off the MRV system so that I couldn't possibly delete the mirrored recordings by mistake.
In case you missed, there is an option to a share a playlist but not allow remote deletion.
I'm not in front of an HR ATM, but I believe it's either under Setup, Multiroom, or Setup, Network, Advanced, Connect Now.
What t_h is trying to get across to everyone is that the statement "Keep until I delete" is not true. Read that statement again, "Keep until I delete".
He's absolutely correct, in my opinion. For some ungodly reason, the programmers made a serious mistake by not making that a true statement. Why should we be at the mercy of a DVR that "thinks" that it is an "I"? If the statement was "Keep until the HR decides to delete", then it would be a true statement.
We had this argument a couple years ago and here it is again. And it's back because nobody at D* chose to correct it. I can understand your confusion (not your's specifically, but all the folks who can't see the logic behind the TS's argument). He was right way back when and he's still right. It's an improperly worded statement.
I know that's there, but my method was more to my liking. Now I'd have to really screw up twice to delete a whole series, not that I'm incapable of doing that too. :lol:
That is why the confirm is there.
BTW, what I was saying about implementation....with Tivo, your whole folder would just go away. No confirmation, nothing. Then you have to go to the recently deleted folder and restore each of the 100 shows individually then set the keep status individually. And if you don't catch it right away, you are lost.
That is why I am no fan of a deleted items bucket unless it is implemented correctly. The idea that you can just delete because it is in the recently deleted folder is bogus. I would want confirmation on each delete, an empty deleted items folder (rather than do them one at a time), structured restore for series folders and a restoration of the status the items had in the first place.
Then how do you do all this with MRV anyway? Where does the deleted folder reside? How do you go into it (unified or individually).
I see the HR2x implementation as a win in this case. You were asked if you wanted to delete the folder and you had a chance to bail.
I understand all that, I understood it from the get-go, but the thing is the possibility of making a huge mistake still exists. I don't care about a recycle bin or whatever you want to call it. I do like the unified or universal playlist for housekeeping, but the danger of losing a whole season and/or multiple copies still exists. What I did with the one HR was to ensure that I would keep the series even if I or my wife made a terrible mistake.
There should be no third command. You can't "Record all Episodes" and "Keep at Most" at the same time. It's one or the other. First run/rerun has no bearing on KAM or if they are marked KUID.
It was being told to record this episode until you overrode that command with KAM and KUID restrictions. It should follow your restriction but it doesn't. That is what creates all the conflict and to me is illogical.
Correct. That is the point of my previous post. There should be no conflict. Again it should'nt have to do three things. The series option page states: "All episodes on this channel will record. You may change the options below." If I change the options I have overridden the normal funtion of the box. It should then follow my instrutions which should supercede the normal function. My logic is that if I modify the options I want it to stay modified. Prompt me with options when a new episode comes up.
The solution is already there. Mark the season pass "Keep All". Then you can mark as many KUID as you wish without fear of having any deleted.
I agree. If you choose to limit episodes and mark everything KUID there should be a prompt/option as I stated in my prior post. There should be a reminder option to record a new episode in spite of the option changes by the user.
So, you agree with t_h and I? We've always been pretty sure of our logic in this matter.
I see where the difference in thinking is now. You're thinking that by setting KAM and KUID that you are modifiying the criteria it uses to deteremine whether to record an episode. I see KAM/KUID as only modifying whether to delete episodes.
Obviously we're never going to agree on this. Again, the solution IMO is to have a series link option to specify how you want it handled. Yes, you can use keep all but there are instances where I like using KAM the way it currently works.
FWIW, here's our longstanding Wish List request for SL recording options:
"SERIES LINK setup options: RECORD: [First Run/Repeat/Both/All with Duplicates]; RECORD THIS TIME SLOT ONLY?: [Y/N]; RECORD THIS WEEK-DAY ONLY?: [Y/N]; KEEP AT MOST: [1/2/3/4/5/10/ALL]; WHEN LIMIT REACHED: [Delete Oldest/Stop Recording]; AUTODELETE WHEN DISK FULL?: [Y/N]"
The "balloon" text for this request reads: When a show will not be recorded because the "Keep At Most" limit has been reached, it should be flagged in the ToDo list, similar to the way other conflicts are currently flagged.
Exactly, how hard would that be to do. This argument has been going on for years and nobody can resolve it?
How is it insane? You're telling it to only keep 5 yet you expect it to keep 6 or 7 or 8, etc? If you tell it to only keep 5 that is exactly what it's going to do regardless of space.