U.C.C. Endorses Gay Marriage

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Frapp, Jul 4, 2005.

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  1. Bogy

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    The JW's have had to revise their understanding of the 144,000 several times. The original understanding was that when the JW gained 144,000 members Jesus would come again, and they would all go to heaven. When they got to member 144,001 and nothing happened a little theological tinkering had to take place.

    ntexasdude, to clarify, the verse you are speaking of is John 1:1. I once compared my Greek New Testament with a Jehovah Witness's Bible, going over what each word meant, and how "a God" was a mistranslation. He was very interested. His partner decided it was time for them to go.

    Tyralak, are you JW?
     
  2. Tyralak

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    Where in the world do you get that idea? That's the silliest notion I've ever heard.

    Please do. I am one, and I can assure you, we don't believe that.



    I assume you're refering to John 1:1. Ancient Greek doesn't use indefinant articles such as "A". English translations have to add those articles based on the context. The context of that scripture and surrounding verses seem to indicate that the article "A" was intended by the original writers.


    That doesn't surprise me. People make up all kinds of things about groups they don't like. I saw one that calimed that the JWs were in league with the Masons and the Illuminati in a conspiricy to rule the world. :rolleyes: If you want to know what the JWs believe, the best way to find out is to ask them or read one of their books.
     
  3. RichW

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    Actually, The JWs are anti-Masons.
     
  4. jonstad

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    Of course not.:sure: Because this would be a green light to critically examine the fantastic claims and beliefs of other faiths, including your own.

    Religious beliefs are about the only beliefs we don't subject to rational inquiry or demand at least some sort of concrete proof. You can believe literally anything you want and as long as you label it religion, your beliefs are given equal credence with any other "faith". Wear a tin-foil hat and you're an object of ridicule. Put on an equally silly hat, some robes, light some incense, sprinkle some water from an ornate silver salt-shaker and you're performing a solumn ritual.
     
  5. ntexasdude

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    And my particular "faith" is ___________??????
     
  6. jonstad

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    You tell me! But whatever it is(unless atheist or agnostic I guess) you probably don't want people "making fun of or bashing" it.

    The point is, most religions maintain sort of an uneasy truce even though they view each other as being either largely or entirely in error. It's kind of an unwritten "mutual defense treaty". Don't question or critically examine my faith and I won't ask you any hard questions either.
     
  7. RichW

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    Put on an equally silly hat, some robes, light some incense, sprinkle some water from an ornate silver salt-shaker and you're performing a solumn ritual.

    Hey, who told you what we Shriners do? !!!! :) :)
     
  8. RLMesq

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    Jerry Falwell's Heritage Foundation? Now there's an unbiased, objective source!

    As Benjamin Disraeli said (though it is more often attributed to Mark Twain, who quoted him), "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
     
  9. RLMesq

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    Since you appear to be learned in the old testiment, perhaps you can help me answer a few more questions:
    1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
    4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    Please advise.

    (Shamlessly plagiarized from a parody letter to Dr. Laura.)
     
  10. Bogy

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    I love that one. :lol: It was good on the West Wing too.
     
  11. Roger

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    Bogy:

    “Roger, are you speaking of any UCC pastor in particular? Your rant is particularly rediculous, because most ministers go to seminary so that they can GET ORDAINED.”

    Not anybody in particular but I’m talking about all of the current blind leaders leading the blind in all denominations. Who ordains people, Bogy? God ordains people and lifts them up. Not any damn seminary. God called Paul, Paul didn’t decide to attend seminary as a career choice which all do now. Speaking of ridiculous... “most ministers go to seminary so that they can GET ORDAINED” that’s ridiculous.

    Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    You do not learn this in seminary and you pay to do the Lord’s work.

    Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
    Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
    Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
    Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    If you’re not hated then you are not of God, period!

    “The KJV is a beautiful translation, very poetic. However, as far as a translation used for study, you can do far better.”

    How sad is it to hear somebody talk about God’s WORD like this.

    “EVERY translator has to make decisions about word choice and phrasing.”

    From what manuscript did they choose? And they had to plagiarize most of it and by law have to change a certain percentage of it just to get a copyright. This is EVIL and God is displeased.

    “Just because the KJV was translated hundreds of years ago doesn't mean they made better choices than translators today. Especially since they were translating from the Latin translation of the Greek and Hebrew, not from the Greek and Hebrew directly.”

    What? We’re talking about motive here and what was used. The KJV was translated from Textus Receptus which was in Greek not Latin. Most modern versions of the ‘bible” were translated from crap manuscripts found in the garbage of a Catholic Church like the NIV. God’s WORD is Holy and not to be corrupted by any man.

    “Those who devoted their lives to a project designed to help people understand God's message deserve to be compensated.”

    And they will be compensated by my LORD.

    This pertains to the people who teach with the false bibles and false doctrine like the damnable “Rapture”

    Eze 13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
    Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
    Eze 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
    Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
    Eze 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

    The above is about the lie of the “Rapture” pillows, lies and fly away. Fly away to the Rapture with the NIV. God forbid!
     
  12. djlong

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    That's not what they told me when they tried to recruit me!
     
  13. Tyralak

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    You're half right. We never believed only 144,000 would be saved, but we have revised our understanding of the heavenly and earthly classes over the years. It's all part of growing in knowledge and understanding as we get a better grasp of the scriptures.

    Not a very good one, I'm afraid, but yes. I've actually been working on that more as of late, which incidently means staying out of the heavy political discussions. So, other than the occasional snide comment, you won't be seeing me in those threads. :D
     
  14. Tyralak

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    Not really. We don't have anything at all against Masons. Our members are encouraged to spend more time in the ministry work rather than fraternal societies, but we have nothing against Masons. Also, my reason for bringing that up, was to show that people can write anything they want, true or not. People write a lot of crap about groups they don't like.
     
  15. Tyralak

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    Then I doubt it was JWs. We've believed the same thing for a very long time.
     
  16. Bogy

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    Roger, you are quite unfamiliar with the process most denominations require of someone who is to be ordained. The process does vary to some degree, but in my denomination it goes like this. Some feels they have a call to the ministry. They meet with the Church and Ministry committee of the Associatation, and come under their care and supervision. They apply to seminary. On top of the four year degree they already have, the seminary program generally runs 3 to 4 years. Periodically they meet with the C&M committee to discuss their progress and call. When they graduate from seminary they meet with the C&M committee, who if they feel the person has the qualifications and sense of call, recommends ordination to the Association. The Association (made up of delegates from all the churches in that Association) meets and holds an Ecclesiastical Council, questioning the candidate on knowledge and call. A vote is taken and if approved an ordination service is held. The Ordination standing remains with the Assiciation, and the Church & Ministry Committee continues to have oversight over the minister. During this process, both the C&M committee and the seminary help to define the sense of Call that the student has. Not everyone is as fortunate as Paul to have a blinding vision make it clear that they are called. For most it is a little more subtle.

    But, you are mistaken that Saul/Paul was called by God with no prior training or intention of entering the ministery. It is recognized that Paul studied with one of the great Rabbis of his time, whose name is still remembered and who is still quoted, Gamaliel.
    Saul/Paul was trained as a Rabbi, and his writing comes out of that training and study of both Hebrew and Greek theology. In studying with Gamaliel he was attending "seminary" as it was recognized in that time. Just as the 12 studied with Jesus for a 3 year period in training for ministry. Unfortunately, only 11 seem to have had a true call.

    I must be close to sainthood then, just based on you and some of the others around here. :angel: :lol:

    What, calling the KJV beautiful is wrong? Roger, the KJV is not God's direct Word. It is a translation.

    They have chosen from the very oldest Greek and Hebrew manuscripts available. Plagiarize? No more than those translating the KJV did. Translations, whether from a German or Japanese work, or Greek and Hebrew, does not have to change anything to be recognized as "original" and subject to copyright. And just when did God communicate with you that he was displeased?

    Ever hear of the Latin Vulgate? That is the text that much of the KJV was translated from. The motive of the KJV translators was to keep the king happy, hence, the heavy emphasis on "royal" imagry in the KJV. The manuscripts being used are in museums and universities, not garbage cans. Since the time of the KJV, archeologists have discovered much older manuscripts than were available to the KJV translators. It is wrong not to use the best resources available in Bible translation, for the sake of tradition.

    YOUR Lord? Nobody else has any access to him?

    This pertains to the people who teach with the false bibles and false doctrine like the damnable “Rapture”

    The above is about the lie of the “Rapture” pillows, lies and fly away. Fly away to the Rapture with the NIV. God forbid![/QUOTE]
    Just what does the Rapture have to do with the NIV? I use the NIV and other modern translations, and I don't believe in the rapture.
     
  17. n8dagr8

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    :cool: ah, come off it. You know no one really hates you. I think you are great! :) I don't think some of your ideas are so great but hey, that's life! :lol:
     
  18. Bogy

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    Quit it, you're going to ruin my chances of Sainthood. :lol:
     
  19. Aug 5, 2005 #279 of 284
    alfbinet

    alfbinet Godfather

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    Stop eating pork. God says so. It is in the bible. Don't pick and choose.
    If you are not already, I would suggest a circumsion as well.
     
  20. Aug 5, 2005 #280 of 284
    alfbinet

    alfbinet Godfather

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    These arguments are so ridiculous. I liked the analogy of a pick and choose menu for the fundamentalists. What I find reading these posts is they always deflect the argument.
     
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