UPS: Protect Yourself From Voltage Dips, Spikes, Surges, and Outages.

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Tips and Resources' started by Milominderbinder2, May 17, 2007.

  1. Jan 5, 2008 #101 of 128
    babzog

    babzog Godfather

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    Sep 19, 2006
    You don't want to install a surge suppressor inline with a UPS that is providing surge suppression.

    UPS and Surge Supressor
     
  2. Jan 9, 2008 #102 of 128
    rajeshh

    rajeshh Godfather

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    Sep 11, 2007
    Hello,
    I would like to ask how to safely shut down the DVR in case there is extended power outage. I have the APC 550 now which is great..but the other day the power went off for hours. I hadnt tested this routine of shutting down the DVR cleanly, so at the end of 40 minutes or so, I guess they all had power yanked..

    I also have an external ESATA drive hooked to the same APC...so I am worried in one of such cases, it may cause more harm. Nothing bad happened this time around luckily.

    Also in my case, the DVR is in a closet and the TV is in a different room..and I dont have the TV on UPS. So when the power does go off, I cannot see the TV screen. I was thinking I could do a macro on the harmony remote to do a Menu reset ( as has been suggested in:

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=941621&postcount=13 )

    but seems like the macro sequences dont work reliably. Any thoughts? What have others done in the events of extended power outage.
     
  3. Jan 9, 2008 #103 of 128
    funhouse69

    funhouse69 Icon

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    Mar 26, 2007
    For this to work you would need a way for the UPS to let the equipment know that it is running out of battery. If you are good at programming then you can utilize software like APC's Powerchute Software to trigger an event which would then run a command that would somehow tell your equipment to shut down.

    The other option would be to use one of the new "Home Theater UPS" systems. You know someone had to come out with this right? Well this actually has the ability to learn and send out IR Commands to shut off equipment. They sell this to save Rear Projection Bulbs.

    I've heard that other companies have come out with them but I've only seen this one so far. http://www.smarthome.com/44318.html?src=Froogle
     
  4. rajeshh

    rajeshh Godfather

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    Sep 11, 2007
    yeah, I am planning on installing the software on my PC which is also connected to the same APC..However, that wont still address the DVR. I wish there was a way to shutdown the DVR just like the menu reset. The way it is now, you have to initiate the reset and pull the power plug before it really starts up again.
     
  5. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    12,224
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    Nov 18, 2005
    Could use some help from any electrical experts out there ...

    Have 8 APC UPS' in the home. 4 are for HR2x receivers.

    A very weird problem last night.

    A little after midnight, 6 of the 8 APC Back-UPS ES boxes starting "clicking", all at the same time throughout the house. They all were continually switching to battery and back non-stop, while the battery was draining. Non-stop switching and clicking.

    Was shocked, had no idea what was happening, and ran around the house to shut off all of the equipment. Spent several hours trying to understand the problem with no success.

    Been researching this all day today.

    Originally I thought all of the UPS' were blown. That's absolutely not the case. I think I now understand the problem and all 8 UPS' are back in service.

    6 of the 8 UPS' had "High" set for Sensitivity checking. The other two had "Medium". Tonight, I hooked up all 8 boxes to a laptop with the APC Powerchute software and now have all 8 UPS' set to "Medium" and all seems fine.

    Now the problem ...

    How do I figure out were the line noise is coming from?

    What tool could be used to find any electrical noise?

    I'd like to set a UPS back to a Sensitivity of "High" and try to find the source of the problem.

    This never happened before.

    All thoughts are welcome!
     
  6. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

    2,551
    18
    Dec 21, 2006
    This happens to me in FL frequently. Causes can include high wind, branches rubbing lines, line work, and even high current motors running on the grid.
    High sensitivity is too much - save that for highly critical credit card transaction devices and military equipment. For consumer devices, medium is plenty, and, in fact, is APC's recommendation. A little line noise is not going to hurt anything, assuming you are not running an old fashioned analog recording studio, and Elvis lives with you.
     
  7. kfcrosby

    kfcrosby Godfather

    384
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    Dec 17, 2006
    Memphis, TN
    Identifying Power-Line Noise is a little bit of an art.

    Noise that varies with the time of day is related to what people are doing, usually pointing to an electrical device or appliance. Noise from consumer-type devices often comes and goes with periods of human activity, frequently correlating with evenings and weekends. Unless it is associated with climate control or an HVAC system, an indoor RFI source is less likely to be affected by weather than power-line noise. Correlating the presence of the noise with periods of human activity and/or weather often provides important clues to identifying power-line noise.

    Weather-Related Interference

    If the interference appears and varies in intensity depending on weather conditions, and if a breaker test excludes sources inside the home, the interference may be caused by faulty components associated with the electrical power lines near the home. Wet weather may temporarily reduce or eliminate the noise by shorting out spark gaps on the power line. Windy weather may cause the noise to vary or even stop for a while, as loose hardware is affected.
    Interference issues must be addressed. FCC regulations require utilities not to cause harmful interference to licensed services and to cease operating any device, upon notification by the FCC, that is causing interference.

    FCC Part-15 regulations govern radio and TV noise most likely to come from utility-owned equipment. These rules specify three classes of emitters that may apply to power-company equipment:

    * Incidental emitters

    Most interference complaints from power-company equipment result from an incidental emitter, such as an electric motor or sparking power-line hardware. Incidental emitters don't intentionally generate radio energy but do so incidentally as a result of their operation.

    * Unintentional emitters

    These may be found in some power-company equipment. Unintentional emitters intentionally generate an internal radio signal, but do not intentionally radiate or transmit it. Examples include some types of “switch-mode” power supplies and microprocessors used in some power-company equipment. Unintentional emitters have specific limits on radiated and conducted emissions.

    * Intentional emitters

    These are transmitters that intentionally radiate RF. In general, they are not found in power company equipment, although some remote-reading usage meters may use intentional emitters.

    Most RF noise on power-company equipment comes from incidental emitters. These have no specific limits on conducted or radiated emissions. But all unlicensed emitters of radio energy have a requirement not to cause harmful interference. If they do, the operator of the device causing the interference must take whatever steps are necessary to correct it.

    Keep in mind, electric utilities are responsible for correcting only the noise generated by the equipment and hardware that they actually own. In cases where utility customers use an appliance or device that generates noise, they must correct the problem, even if the noise is conducted and radiated by the utility's power line.

    My suggestion, if the medium selection works, leave it there. High sensitivity for what you are doing is a bit of overkill.

    Kevin
     
  8. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    12,224
    95
    Nov 18, 2005
    Thanks guys.

    All are now set to "medium" sensitivity. Seems like they all were "high" for some reason. We did have bad wet winter weather the other night right when the problem occurred.

    All is well now.

    And no Elvis here :)
     
  9. JohnDG

    JohnDG Legend

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    Aug 16, 2006
    Anybody have an UPS that can be configured to turn off the audible alarm in ALL cases. I've had a couple that, although I can turn off the audible alarm during most of the outage, I cannot turn off the audible alarm during the final minutes of power.

    jdg
     
  10. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    12,224
    95
    Nov 18, 2005
    APC Powerchute has "Disable battery backup alarms at all times".

    I think it works all the time.
     
  11. lflorack

    lflorack Godfather

    473
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    Dec 16, 2006
    I recently bought an APC AV J Type 1.5kVA Power Conditioner with Battery Backup (J15BLK for short) from TheNerds.net was delivered on Friday while I was at work. So, after lugging it inside (shipping weight is 65 pounds!) and unboxing it, I let the J15BLK warm up for a few hours before getting started because it was pretty cold from sitting on the porch all day. I then connected the battery pack because, for safety, the J15BLK has to be shipped with the battery disconnected. I then plugged the J15BLK in to charge it overnight. The instructions say it can take 18 hours to charge the battery but when I plugged it in, the LCD screen on the front of the J15BLK said it was already fully charged.

    On Saturday, I disconnected and removed the old UPS from my AV setup. Wit that done, I had to do some shelf rearranging to get the J15BLK in place because the new unit is bigger than the old one. With that done, I put the J15BLK in place and connected it up. Each component has a place to connect it because each type of component requires different power conditioning and protection. Since I was now having connections for LAN, 2x Satellite and an antenna for OTA to the J15BLK -- and then to the original components, it was good to see that cables for each of the needed connections are included in the shipping box.

    After connecting everything up, I then went through the system setup. This is done via the buttons and LCD screen on the front of the J15BLK. Setup items include: Audible Alarm; Sensitivity; LCD & LED Dimmers; Battery Threshold; Outlet Group Delay; Low Battery Warning Time; Battery Replacement Date; Self-Test; RunTime Calculation Test; ScreenSaver and Display Test. Many information screens are also available as well. They include; Input/Output Voltage; System Load; Estimated Runtime; Fuel (Battery Charge %); Source; Firmware Version; Model/Serial Number; Tech Support Info and Input/Output Frequency. It's nice to have the ability to see all of this at the touch of a button.

    My impressions of the unit so far are very positive. It's very well put together. It's well thought out with all of the settings and informational screens. With my particular AV setup, the J15BLK will condition the power for and protect everything in the AV Center and the battery backup will keep the TV, DVR, Receiver, DVD Player, Idea-Lume and a small cooling fan for the DVR running for 22 minutes. With just the DVR running (normal when were not home or not using the AV center) for just short of two hours (60w). The J15BLK is only loaded to 37% with everything running. I feel very protected

    For more information, about APC AV solutions, check out this list of articles at Audioholics.
     
  12. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

    2,551
    18
    Dec 21, 2006
    Hw much did you spend on this beast ?
     
  13. lflorack

    lflorack Godfather

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    Dec 16, 2006
    It lists for $650. I bought it at TheNerds.net for ~$350+shipping. I don't see it there for that price any longer. Get one here for $353.83.
     
  14. lflorack

    lflorack Godfather

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    Dec 16, 2006
    Price is now $335.54 + shipping.
     
  15. Feb 1, 2008 #115 of 128
    carsonius

    carsonius Mentor

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    Dec 31, 2007
    This link that babzog provided contradicts the advice in the first post on this thread. I'm not sure what to believe.

    I'd like to put my HR20 and FAP 750 on an inexpensive APC ups but, am a little confused about how to hook it all up.

    Anyone have any opinions on the babzog angle?
     
  16. Feb 3, 2008 #116 of 128
    bobg52

    bobg52 New Member

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    Jan 14, 2008
    If this question has already been answered in DBSTalk please accept my apologies for asking again but so far I haven't been able to locate a definitive answer. I am attempting to determine the amount of power consumed by the HR-20 100 in both standby, (off), and operating, (on), modes. The 1000 VA UPS I have been using completely lost its' charge following a 3 hour power failure. No equipment was on at the time of the failure. The UPS manufacturer, Tripp-Lite, is requiring that I provide the power consumption figures to analyze the problem.
     
  17. Feb 3, 2008 #117 of 128
    DonHac

    DonHac Mentor

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    Nov 21, 2007
    I used a Kill-A-Watt to measure my HR21-700 and it used ~37W, a figure that was not changed by going into or out of standby. A couple hours is all you can really hope for with that size UPS, even when the DVR is "off".
     
  18. Feb 4, 2008 #118 of 128
    lflorack

    lflorack Godfather

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    Dec 16, 2006
    ~37 Watts sounds about right for the HR20. My APC J15 reports ~60 Watts with the HR20 on or in standby (no difference), a small cooling fan and my 60" SXRD in standby.
     
  19. michael_duke

    michael_duke Cool Member

    12
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    Dec 5, 2007
    Richmond,...
    Sorry in advance for the long post, but wanted to provide enough details to the group.

    I want to get an all-in-one UPS/Power Conditioner/Surge Suppressor for my AV components. Here is the list of my components with their wattage maximums taken from their manuals:

    Pioneer Plasma TV, Model PDP 6010-FD, 532 watts
    DirecTV HD DVR, Model HR21-700, 55 watts
    Onkyo AV Receiver, Model TX-SR805, 1140 watts
    Sony Blu-Ray Player, Model BDP-S500, 33 watts
    Total Maximum Watts - 1760

    Where I live we have numerous black-outs, brown-outs, etc. so I want to protect my components.

    Here are the UPS/Power Conditioner/Surge Supressor models I am considering so far:

    1.) Belkin PureAV® Home Theater Battery Backup with AVR Technology, Model AP30800fc10-BLK (640-watt battery-backup & 5500 Joules of surge protection), $185

    2.) Belkin PureAV Home Theater Battery Backup with AVR Technology, Model AP30800-10 (640-watt battery-backup & 5500 Joules of surge protection), $215

    (Other than the casing and price I do not see much difference between 1 & 2 above.)

    3.) Belkin PureAV Hybrid AVU1500 UPS with PureFilter Technology, Model AP51300fc10-BLK (1000-watt battery-backup & 8,000 Joules of surge protection), $645

    4.) APC Av J15BLK Home Theater 1500VA Battery Backup, Power Filter and Power Conditioner (865-watt battery-backup), $562

    5.) APC AV J10BLK Home Theater 1000VA Battery Backup, Power Filter and Power Conditioner (600-watt battery-backup), $477

    I am not looking to be able to power my AV equipment for long periods of time during a black-out, but have enough time to turn things off in a normal manner so they are not subject to immediate power-ups and downs. Additionally, I want clean power going in and to eliminate any power spikes. There is quite a range in the pricing above, but basically once you go over 600 watts for the UPS the price jumps drastically.

    I would like any recommendations or opinions from those who have similar components and power consumptions who are using UPS/Power Conditioner/Surge Suppressor units with their AV components. I want to balance cost with what is really needed and not spend for something that is overkill.

    I have tried searching the forums for ideas/recommendations, but it is all over the board in terms of responses. I am posting to this specific thread in hope that I can get some answers from owners with similar set-ups who may have first hand experience with any of these models.

    The product specs tell you what to expect in terms of battery run time; e.g. with #4 above (865 watts) - approximately 14 minutes at half-load (423 watts) & approximately 4 minutes at full load. Not sure if these are realistic numbers or not?

    What adds to my confusion is the 6010 is rated at 532 watts alone. If you then add any of my additional AV components then one can exceed the capacity of the back-up battery if everything is running and there is a black-out. I have read that the only way to determine the size of the back-up battery needed is to add all of the components wattage together that will be connected to the UPS. This seems to be overkill in my mind as I don't know if you can find something that large for home use (in my case 1760 watts), let alone the price point of such a monster. Perhaps I do not need to have all of the components on the UPS? Connecting the receiver to just the non-battery back-up would drop the power need to just 620 watts maximum. Again I just want to have enough time to power down all of my components in a safe manner.

    Another point of confusion is that I read on several other threads that one only needs a UPS if you have a projector/DLP unit to help run the cooling fan for the projector bulb once the power goes out and that a UPS is not needed for a plasma unit. I am having difficulty buying into that as I believe my plasma unit has some cooling fans, maybe I am overcautious, but I would rather be safe than sorry. I have also read the recommendations to have the entire house protected from surges. While that is sound advice it does not protect your AV components from surges/spikes that can come in from telephone/cable & satellite lines so one still needs protection specific for your AV components.

    Again, sorry for the length, but there was a lot of ground to cover. I look forward to your responses. Thanks again.

    Michael
     
  20. Jul 1, 2008 #120 of 128
    ApK

    ApK Icon

    761
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    Mar 6, 2006
    I have heard the advice in the link--DON'T connect a surge suppressor to a surge suppressor UPS--from several sources, and the article provides some rationale.

    The OP is someone I don't know and provided nothing more that what may be a statement of uninformed opinion (or he/she may be a expert power engineer, point is, I don't know). So until I researched it further, I'd go with the article's advice and not do it.

    Holds to basic advice: don't believe ANYTHING just because you read it on the Internet.

    ApK
     

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