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Verizon Joins the Dumb Move Crowd

Discussion in 'The OT' started by SayWhat?, Dec 29, 2011.

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  1. djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again.

    Remember - a corporations NUMBER ONE loyalty is to it's SHAREHOLDERS. The "customers" are only there as a delivery mechanism of cash to the SHAREHOLDERS.

    SInce the 1980s, there has been an increasing demand for share price growth in addition to dividend growth. The idea of "good enough" no longer applies ANYWHERE.
     
  2. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    It's odd how much American "conventional wisdom" was overhauled in the 1980's. For the sake of clarity from Wikipedia:
    To me logic says that share price plus dividends over the long term should reflect inflation plus a rate of return consistent with risk as compared to FDIC insured savings interest rates. But at some point in or after the 1980's the talking-head-school-for-financial-analysts convinced us that the only thing that counts is profits the company made in the last quarter ... of an hour.:rolleyes:
     
  3. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I just called Master Card and they have a $10 minimum limit. In other words, they can stop you from charging $9.99, but have to accept $10.00 or more. That's for debit cards and credit cards. This is a federal regulation and covers all states and all cards. It was quite a few years ago that I had that conversation with my brother about credit cards and it seems new regulations have been passed. I just scanned that whole Dodd Frank bill and I can't find any mention of it. The person I talked to had no idea about it either, he just said it was a federal regulation that $10.00 is the cut off amount that people in business can refuse to allow you to use a credit card for.

    Rich
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    SEC. 920. REASONABLE FEES AND RULES FOR PAYMENT CARD TRANSACTIONS.
    ‘(b) Limitation on Payment Card Network Restrictions-
    ‘(3) LIMITATION ON RESTRICTIONS ON SETTING TRANSACTION MINIMUMS OR MAXIMUMS-
    ‘(A) IN GENERAL- A payment card network shall not, directly or through any agent, processor, or licensed member of the network, by contract, requirement, condition, penalty, or otherwise, inhibit the ability--
    ‘(i) of any person to set a minimum dollar value for the acceptance by that person of credit cards, to the extent that --
    ‘(I) such minimum dollar value does not differentiate between issuers or between payment card networks; and
    ‘(II) such minimum dollar value does not exceed $10.00; or​
    ‘(ii) of any Federal agency or institution of higher education to set a maximum dollar value for the acceptance by that Federal agency or institution of higher education of credit cards, to the extent that such maximum dollar value does not differentiate between issuers or between payment card networks.​
    ‘(B) INCREASE IN MINIMUM DOLLAR AMOUNT- The Board may, by regulation prescribed pursuant to section 553 of title 5, United States Code, increase the amount of the dollar value listed in subparagraph (A)(i)(II).​
    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h4173/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:11596
     
  5. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Thanx, I just couldn't find it. So, the folks who sell stuff or services can limit the use of credit cards to above $10.00. OK, that agrees with what a CSR from MC told me yesterday. Now the next time I go to my favorite foot doctor, who has a whopping big sign that says "Minimum accepted for credit cards...$50", or words to that effect, I can finally win that argument.

    Thanx again, James,

    Rich
     
  6. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    Well if nothing else, this thread and Rich's post gave me the idea to start paying by credit card when I see a doctor! I have always paid by check so I'd have a record, and I don't even know if my doctors accepts credit card payments, but if I can get cash back AND have a record of the visit, I'll be a happy Drewbie... :)
     
  7. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    We've got Horizon for our health insurer and they gave us credit cards that are just meant to be used for medical expenses. Saves us money on taxes, I think, somehow or other. My wife explained it to me, but I didn't really listen. She puts money on the cards in January and we use the cards until the money is used up. Last year was the first year we had them and she only put $1,200 in the account and we had that used up by June. She doubled the amount this year.

    Every doctor I go to accepts credit cards here, can't be that much different from Long Island, I would think.

    About 5 years ago, we had a different plan and they tried to scam us by telling us we owed over $500 in unpaid co-pays. We had all the credit card receipts and won that little battle rather quickly. So, yeah, it is a good idea to have some way of tracking what you pay for your health.

    Rich
     
  8. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    This is a little off-topic (OK, a lot!) but that sounds like a Flexibile Spending Account where you "prepay" what you anticipate you medical expenses for the year will total, and the money you allocate is not taxed. I don't have one but I've seen signs at the pharmacy for FSAs...
     
  9. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    A payment card network shall not, ... inhibit the ability--

    ‘(i) of any person to set a minimum dollar value ... to the extent that --

    ‘(II) such minimum dollar value does not exceed $10.00; or



    Is that supposed to be in English?

    I can't figure out if it says they can or they can't.
     
  10. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I think that's how it works. Probably should have paid more attention to my wife.

    Rich
     
  11. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Just think of what I went thru last night searching thru various iterations of the bill.

    Rich
     
  12. TBoneit

    TBoneit Hall Of Fame

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    I can't believe you'd eat mediocre food rather than keep cash in your pocket.

    I always keep $20+ in my pocket and not credit cards. I have them I just don't use them if I can avoid it. It has been so long since I used a ATM machine, Sometime in the 1990s I believe. They make it to easy for the less organized to lose track of their spending. Cash if you start out with a budgeted amount say $100 for the week and stop spending when it is gone no problem with overspending.


    My suspicion is that they were targeting those users that don't monitor their bills unless the dollar amount looks higher than it should. With autopay they may never notice.
     
  13. RasputinAXP

    RasputinAXP Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

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    Rich, does your wife work for the state too? Sounds like our plan with Horizon and FBMC's flex spending account. It's tax free and comes out of your paycheck automatically.
     
  14. BobaBird

    BobaBird EKB Editor

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    If they set a minimum, it can't be set higher than $10.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Maybe ... The law does not prevent higher minimums from being set, in agreement between the "payment card network". It only prevents the "payment card network" from requiring businesses to accept charges below $10.

    Close. The law is a limitation on the "payment card network". They can not set a minimum below $10. (They cannot force merchants to accept transactions under $10.) Nothing prevents the minimum transaction from being set higher by the payment card network. (They can refuse transactions under any limit they choose to set.)
     
  16. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    The law does prevent higher minimums. It states that the minimum cannot exceed $10. However, as you stated this limitation is on the payment network. So as I read it, MasterCard cannot tell merchants that there needs to be a minimum of $20 to use a card, however, the merchant can set their own minimum of $20.

    - Merg
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I realize the language is complicated so I encourage you to read it again.

    A payment card network shall not inhibit the ability of any person to set a minimum dollar value for the acceptance by that person of credit cards, to the extent that such minimum dollar value does not differentiate between issuers or between payment card networks and such minimum dollar value does not exceed $10.00.

    The payment card network can't stop a merchant from setting a limit $10 or less. If the merchant wants to set a $20 limit that is outside of the law and not protected. The payment card network CAN inhibit the $20 limit (if they choose). It could probably be argued that a payment card network minimum of $20 would inhibit the ability of a merchant to set a $10 minimum ... so I'll accept that $10 would be the highest minimum (unless both merchant and processor agree and the merchant isn't inhibited).

    In practice, the processors want to accept any sale. The more money flowing through their system the more money they make. Merchants paying per swipe fees on top of percentages may prefer not to process low dollar sales. Before Dodd-Frank the processors pushed the $0 minimums - so I doubt they want minimums any higher than they need to be to not inhibit the retailer's right to set a minimum. But that is their choice, not the law.
     
  18. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I'm going to bed now. Almost as confused as I was yesterday.

    Rich
     
  19. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Flexible Spending accounts are very common (I've had one with every job I've had over the last 10 - 15 years) and not just for State employees.
     
  20. RasputinAXP

    RasputinAXP Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

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    I'm aware of that. It's the combination of a couple of things he's said in the past.
     

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