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VIP 612 and hopper

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by bobmn1967, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Aug 4, 2013 #1 of 34
    bobmn1967

    bobmn1967 New Member

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    Hi is it possible to have a VIP 612 and a hopper and Joey on the same dish . Using 61.5 and 72.7 Sats
     
  2. Aug 4, 2013 #2 of 34
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    yes, but not on one account
     
  3. Aug 4, 2013 #3 of 34
    bobmn1967

    bobmn1967 New Member

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    Jul 13, 2013
    Does anybody know why this is
     
  4. Aug 4, 2013 #4 of 34
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    only dish knows why, they just set the rule and hold it for while;
    minimal distortion of the rule is allow adding 211 with Tailgate box
     
  5. Aug 5, 2013 #5 of 34
    Grandude

    Grandude RichardParker II

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    My guess is that it would complicate installations too much. Required hardware would include a DPP44 switch or equivalent along with the existing node(s) and more cables, etc.
    Then it also would require the installers to learn how to connect it all up.

    Next would be educating the service reps at the other end of the phone line when something isn't working and you need an answer to why and what can be done to fix it.

    Then there is the problem of account stacking. If you have a single Hopper and three Joeys, there is no way to accomplish account stacking even though you can drive four HD TVs with such a system. In the "olden days" of multiple VIP receivers, having enough to drive four HD TVs required or almost required four VIP receivers and probably made it more difficult for Dish to prevent account stacking so they limited the number of leased receivers you could have. You could buy extra receivers like I did, add a DPP switch and then be ready for the call from Dish to verify that all receivers listed on your account are at only one location. (A pain in the butt to comply with that call even if you aren't account stacking. I'm not BTW but do have a purchased VIP211k and two Hoppers on my system.) I did get the call!

    I guess the beauty of a one Hopper, three Joey system is that you can carry your Hopper to the cabin in the mountains even though someone is still at home and there is no problem of account stacking as the three Joeys are worthless without a Hopper.

    Just my rambling thoughts!
     
  6. Aug 5, 2013 #6 of 34
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    the "worry" about stacking is always puzzle me ... I'm not call for that ... no, but why customers should care ? "raising" cost ? oh yeah, they will bring anything to procure it and will raise your fee regardless... from technical stand point, it's not like tapping gas/oil tube and stealing gasoline from it - satellite signal broadcasting regardless a number receivers, that box (what is your) temporary moved to your summer cabin is paid and still counted on your account
    too much of concern, perhaps something personal involved or just bad imprinting in brains from old days when cable company force you to pay for each TV in your household
     
  7. Aug 5, 2013 #7 of 34
    Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    Technically there is no problem, as long as you keep the ViP receiver off the Hopper's "node". A direct wire off the LNB with the correct splitters and switches is all you need (since the LNB's have extra outputs).

    From Dish's perspective they would like you to have all the same series equipment. So instead of a Hopper and a 612, you would have a Hopper and a Joey. With the increased hard drive capacity of the Hopper you should not need a second full DVR.
     
  8. Aug 5, 2013 #8 of 34
    bobmn1967

    bobmn1967 New Member

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    Ok I'm trying to set this up on my own I have a dpp 44 switch but the VIP only sees the 61.5 or the 72.7 not both which I need what am I missing
     
  9. Aug 5, 2013 #9 of 34
    tampa8

    tampa8 Godfather/Supporter

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    the "worry" about stacking is always puzzle me ... I'm not call for that ... no, but why customers should care ? "raising" cost ? oh yeah, they will bring anything to procure it and will raise your fee regardless... from technical stand point, it's not like tapping gas/oil tube and stealing gasoline from it - satellite signal broadcasting regardless a number receivers, that box (what is your) temporary moved to your summer cabin is paid and still counted on your account
    too much of concern, perhaps something personal involved or just bad imprinting in brains from old days when cable company force you to pay for each TV in your household


    That's not really account stacking and not what Dish and Direct are most concerned about. You have an account with 3 receivers with one receiver in your house one receiver at your Brother's house and another one at a friend's house all paying 1/3 of one account. That's account stacking.
     
  10. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    we are going off-topic ... but the aspect of acquisition ppl comes up here on regular basis and usually embraced without merits

    as to legal procurement ... lets see:
    - all the separate devices listed on an account and payable
    - one device basically provide a TV picture and a sound for more then one person, say family or friends at your place during sport event (nobody telling you about illegal viewing, duh !)
    - your second/third receiver could be placed _legaly_ in guest room or guest house (hello P.Hilton :) ) - nobody care, duh !
    - second/third receiver could you use your brother or sister - no issue, right ?

    Now, watch my fingers ;) - the brother moved down in same block or city and taking the receiver with him - WHAT IS CHANGED ?!

    I mean from viewing stand point, from using equipment, from the signal consuming. Do you see RIAA, MPAA etc legal point to baffle you for the action ?
     
  11. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    What has changed... is the service address.

    The Terms of service say everything must be installed at the same service address. IF they didn't have that in the Terms of service... then only one person in the country would need to sign up, and then he could add infinity receivers to his account for the rest of the country... because you are right, there is no signal to "use up" like there is when you steal gasoline or some other physical thing.

    So... IF they don't make this a requirement, the service address, then it wouldn't be against the rules... and enough people doing it means no money to put up satellites and pay employees and then the whole thing goes down the drain and no more TV for anyone.

    That's why the rule is there... each service address needs its own account (a few exceptions for snowbird or RV customers).

    Now, back to topic!
     
  12. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    [ last off-topic moment: Charlie buying companies, spectrum, assets for cash; how much he and Jim have 'free' money in the business ?
    I wouldn't see why they should worried if someone take his receiver to a cabin or in RV - his eyes and ears went with the receiver, yeah and he do pay for the privilege to watch/listening the channels

    adding to that (and you knew that) they have a limit to number of boxes for one account (6) so you attempt to make it World's global is inaccurate and ... ]
     
  13. tampa8

    tampa8 Godfather/Supporter

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    Mar 30, 2002
    we are going off-topic ... but the aspect of acquisition ppl comes up here on regular basis and usually embraced without merits

    as to legal procurement ... lets see:
    - all the separate devices listed on an account and payable
    - one device basically provide a TV picture and a sound for more then one person, say family or friends at your place during sport event (nobody telling you about illegal viewing, duh !)
    - your second/third receiver could be placed _legaly_ in guest room or guest house (hello P.Hilton :) ) - nobody care, duh !
    - second/third receiver could you use your brother or sister - no issue, right ?

    Now, watch my fingers ;) - the brother moved down in same block or city and taking the receiver with him - WHAT IS CHANGED ?!

    I mean from viewing stand point, from using equipment, from the signal consuming. Do you see RIAA, MPAA etc legal point to baffle you for the action ?


    You can not be serious.... theft of service. That small amount paid for additional receivers is obviously not meant to provide separate families services and the terms of service are very clear about it. Not good to mislead someone on that.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The bottom line is the satellite providers (both of them) have agreed that it is wrong ... and they have written it in to their terms of service that every subscriber must abide by as part of their agreement in exchange for the service. One can rationalize until they are blue in the face or the keys wear off of their keyboards - but such discussion is irrelevant.

    If you do not like the agreement you have made to follow your satellite provider's rules feel free to cancel your service and seek a company with policies you like. If you feel that the agreement is unfair find the law they are breaking and sue the provider. The satellite companies are not asking you to paint your house florescent red or give up your first born child to get service (although it seems that way with some rate increase discussions). All they ask is that you give them an accurate physical address for your service and install your satellite equipment at the address where the satellite company has agreed to provide you service.

    Simple.

    And as far as our forum goes ... that is it. If one wants to get into a debate about how many feet apart receivers can be before the TOS is violated that is a debate best had between the parties to the agreement. It is one of the topics we have decided is too controversial for this site. So the OT part of this thread ends now.


    And as far as the topic of this thread ... using a ViP and Hopper on the same account ... that is not specified as being against their TOS but there are limits to what DISH will allow. For some reason they don't want to mix receivers on an account. I can understand that for lease accounts where they supply the switches, hubs, etc to make the system work - but owned equipment where the customer takes the responsibility for wiring and making it work I wonder what their problem is. But once again, it is their company, their rules and we are merely the pawns in this game. We can either play by their rules or find another company to sell us TV service.

    Simple.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. AzAssassin

    AzAssassin New Member

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    Nov 20, 2013
    Arizona
    I am wondering the exact same thing, so I was hoping that someone can provide an up-to-date answer to this question.

    I just got my DISH Network service last week and it includes the Hopper and one Joey. I was unfamiliar with the Hopper, but it seemed/seems like a great DVR, so that is what I requested. Overall, the Hopper seems to be a fantastic device - my issue with it, however, is that it does not have an S-Video Output port. I am an avid Boxing fan and collector, so I want to be able to record HBO's and Showtime's Boxing broadcasts with my Panasonic (DMR-EA18) DVD Recorder. Particularly, I want to be able to record the HBOHD and ShowtimeHD Boxing broadcasts; and, since no DVD Recorders (that I know of) have an HDMI Input capability, the best way to do that is via the S-Video output signal (or, at least, it has been the best way for a few years now).

    I realize that it is not possible to actually record a true HD signal with a DVD Recorder, and I'm OK with that. However, I have been capping (recording) for years what is considered in the Boxing torrent communities as "HD-Source DVD" captures. And the main reason I want to be able to record from an S-Video Output source is because I would really like to be able to have my HD-Source DVDs end up with a 16:9 Widescreen video image that does not have the black bars across the top and bottom of the picture.

    I had Verizon FiOS for several years while I was living in Florida and I was able to use my Panasonic DVD Recorder to record from HBOHD and ShowtimeHD, and the vidoe quality was excellent, but the video on my recorded HD-Source DVDs always had the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. From what I understand, this had to do with the Video Output settings on my FiOS HD-DVR not sending out a 16:9 Widescreen signal over the S-Video or Composite Video Outputs (it would only do so over the Component and HDMI Outputs), so I did not have that as an option. However, people with Dish Network and DirecTV had the ability to get a 16:9 Anamorphic (I think it's called) Widescreen video signal via the S-Video Output on their satellite HD-DVR's, so that is what I was looking forward to now being able to do, now that I have Dish Network service. However, the excitement was short-lived after actually looking at the back of my Hopper DVR and seeing that there was no S-Video Output.

    I apologize for the unnecessarily-long explanation; but I wanted to explain why I am inquiring about the possibility of being able to use a Hopper and a VIP612 HD-DVR with the same DISH Network satellite dish (and on the same account), in hopes of receiving some well-informed and up-to-date feedback about this questions, as well as possibly getting some alternative options for my situation.

    After spending about an hour chatting with DISH Network Chat customer support earlier today, and then spending another 15-20 minutes on the phone with customer support, it seems as though the only available option for me is to return my Hopper and downgrade to a different HD-DVR that does have an S-Video Output port. Now, this seems to be a viable solution for my current situation's issue; but, before I decide to send the Hopper back and downgrade to an older/different HD-DVR, I would like to try to find out if there might be any alternative options that will enable me to have access to an S-Video Output signal while being able to keep the Hopper. So, that is why I created an account and am posting on here. And I would sincerely appreciate any help that any of you are willing to offer me.

    For the record, I have thought about trying to get a Tivo device that has an S-Video Output port, but I'm not sure if this is a viable option for what I need. Assuming that there is a Tivo unit that has either an S-Video or Component Video INPUT, as well as an S-Video OUTPUT, I could connect the Hopper to this Tivo unit (via S-Video or Component Video) and then connect the Tivo unit's S-Video Output to my Panasonic DVD Recorder and still have the 16:9 Anamorphic Widescreen video signal. However, I don't know whether or not this is an option right now, because I have looked at so many DVR's and receivers today that I honestly can't recall what is available on Tivo receivers.

    If getting a Tivo unit is not an option - which it very well may not be - I would really like to find out if I can just get an additional DISH Network HD-DVR and use it while keeping my Hopper? For the record, I fully realize that any device other than a Joey will NOT be able to communicate with the Hopper, therefore, it will not be able to see/access any of the recordings on the Hopper. And that's fine. I would be happy if I could even only be able to use one of the HD-DVR's at a time, so that I could at least record Boxing broadcasts with the VIP612 (or whatever HD-DVR I might be able to get my hands on) and then utilize the S-Video Output to record it to a DVD-R disc with my Panasonic DVD Recorder.

    While thinking of this, I would like to specifically ask if it might be a possibility to be able to have a VIP612 HD-DVR activated on my account and just be able to use it if/when the Hopper is unplugged/disconnected from the satellite dish? Or would my Hopper need to be plugged in and connected to my satellite dish in order for my account/service to be recognized/validated by the DISH Network system?

    For the record, my plan has been to try to find a used DISH Network HD-DVR (like the VIP612 or something similar) on the local Craigslist or eBay, get it back to my apartment, then call DISH Network and ask them to activate it to my account. I am aware that the unit would need to be cleared through DISH Network and to not be reported as stolen or lost and to not have any unpaid balance owed against the device/account it was connected to. I am fully aware of the potential risks involved when buying something used, especially electronics; but I have terrible credit and usually little cash, so, most of the time, it's my only realistic option.

    So, assuming that I can get my hands on a used DISH Network VIP612 (or similar HD-DVR) that will be accepted and can be activated by DISH Network customer service, is it realistic/possible that I will be able to add it to my current service while keeping my Hopper? Can I likely/possibly use a VIP612 unit in conjuction with my Hopper, and just not be able to access either device with the other? Or will there likely be some sort of interference issues with having them connected to the same satellite dish at the same time? And if that will be a problem, can I possibly get around that by simply unplugging my Hopper and only having the VIP612 unit plugged in/connected to my satellite dish?

    I am sorry for writing so much. I hope that at leats some of you folks who started reading this post will have finished reading it, and will still have the interest/desire/energy to be able to offer up a reply! And to anyone who is willing to try to help me resolve this issue, please know that your help will be sincerely appreciated! Thanks in advance, to anyone who does try to help me!!
     
  16. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    we have enough posts to find the answer : NO to a mix of XiP and ViP, only ViP211[k or z] with Tailgate allow.
     
  17. AzAssassin

    AzAssassin New Member

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    Arizona
    I am sorry to post something that had been answered before (many times, apparently); but I was specifically told two different answers to this question by two different chat support agents yesterday. So, I was not sure about what the answer really was. Thanks for at least taking the time to reply, though.

    As for the ViP211K (which is the portable unit, right?), is it a DVR or just a receiver? And if I were to buy a used ViP211 device (there is a used on on my local Craigslist right now), would I be able to use it at my apartment with my current DISH Network service along with my currently-installed Hopper? Or is it just something that you can activate with your account and then use while outside of your home?

    Also, I would really like someone's opinion on this. Would exchaning my Hopper and downgrading to a different HD-DVR (like the VPP612 or VIP722) be a major downgrade? What are the major differences between the Hopper and the VIP612 or VIP722? Is it just storage space? Does the Hopper have access to more channels? Does the Hopper have better/more settings/output options? I don't care much about being able to add multiple receiver units (like the ability to add additional Joeys with the Hopper), so that's not a major concern. I am just curious what the downside might be to exchanging the Hopper and getting a different/older HD-DVR unit?

    As always, replies will be very much appreciated!
     
  18. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I would really like to say - check that Hopper/XiP dedicated forum, read and search there ... ppl did post and explain there for a couple years ... should we repost tons of info here again ?
     
  19. Mike.H_DISHNetwork

    Mike.H_DISHNetwork DISH Representative DISH Representative

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    [SIZE=medium]bobmn1967, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]To better help and assist you, would you please PM me with the phone number on the account?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Thanks[/SIZE]
     
  20. AzAssassin

    AzAssassin New Member

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    Arizona
    FYI, I just signed up on here yesterday, after finding it via a Google search. I'm sorry for not being familiar with every thread in every forum on this site. Thanks for your sarcastic/smartass comments, though. I will be sure to try to avoid threads that you have participated in.
     

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