Vip 622 signal strength

Discussion in 'ViP612/622/722/722K DVR Support Forum' started by paulcdavis, May 31, 2007.

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  1. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Since none of us knows exactly how the various signal level indicators across the Dish receivers are calibrated or what exactly they are taking into account for the measure... it may not be reasonable to even assume that a 0-125 scale on one receiver means the same as a 0-125 scale on another receiver.

    I know it might seem like it ought to... but this isn't like measuring height with a ruler where an inch is always an inch... I doubt any of the Dish receivers (except possibly ones in the same series like 501/508) share any direct reasonably correlation.

    So... if you are seeing 110 on your 510 receiver for a given transponder... and 100 on your 622 for that same transponder... even if both scales are 0-125... there is not a concrete reason to assume the 622 is seeing 10% lower signal. Both receivers could in fact be seeing the same level of signal, but each meter's scale is not calibrated to the same degree.

    Bottom line... there is not really a way to compare different receivers like you might want to. You could take your 510 receiver and move it to another room, and if you get lower signal in one room than another that would tell you something... but comparing different model receivers really doesn't seem to tell you anything relative to the amount of signal getting to receiver A vs receiver B.
     
  2. rice0209

    rice0209 Legend

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    Oct 11, 2005


    EXACTLY, that is why i was asking the question in the first place. To try and understand what differences there were since the results were not matching up. I am just simply trying to point out the facts in order to understand what makes this so different.

    I have never had problems with different rooms. In my old system at my last house, the signals were all the same on every receiver. It was only when i introduced the 622 into the system with my two 510s that i started reporting a lower signal strength. My installer in the last house confirmed that he sees it happen all the time. He will peak a signal, and as soon as he hooks in a 622, the signal begins to report 10 - 15 points lower. This caused all my receivers to report the same as the 622 after it was installed.

    I installed my own dish this last time, and without remembering this weird problem, experienced it all over again.

    It definitely could just be a difference of scales or it could be something a little more deep in the programming of switches and signal loss due to all the extra logic being introduced. I don't know. If anyone does know, out of curiousity, i would like to know as well.
     
  3. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    if your signals on the transponder for your locals are in the 70-100 range, I would suspect the issue might be in the stream. I am sure they are still tweaking the MPEG4 stuff so I would shoot dish quality a email and tell them what you are experiencing.
     
  4. paulcdavis

    paulcdavis Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I had a 921 tweaked for max signal strength (really signal / noise ratio) using a Dish 1000.1 with separator at receiver.

    When I took out the 921 and put in the 622, all the signal strengths were at least 10 points lower. No change in wiring or antenna adjustment. Both the 921 and 622 have a 0-125 scale. Unless the tuner in the 622 is not as good as the tuner in the 921 (unlikely), the way they calculate signal strength on the 622 must be different from how it was calculated on the 921.
     
  5. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    If you will insert 3 dB or 6 dB attenuator and the receiver does not reveal decrease of SS, then the scale shows a ratio of good/bad packets (BER). For sure FTA DVB-S cards working this way with Quality scale ( plus separate SS sclae ).
     
  6. fadi

    fadi New Member

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    my scale on my 622 is 0 - 125. Signal strength for the 110, 119, and 121 are 75 - 90, but for the 129 is 54 - 62. I occasionally get pixelation, or the picture may momentarily blackout (but not the sound).

    Would inserting an inline sattellite signal amp make any difference. Channel Vision has one that is 20 dB. True Spec has one that is sloped, 16 - 20 dB from 950 MHz - 2250 MHz. My total cable run from dish to distribution panel to receiver is around 200', all RG6 Quad shield.
     
  7. paulcdavis

    paulcdavis Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Hi

    At 200 ft you are just about at the limit of cable length for Dish pro plus transponders and the 622.

    Do you have a dish 1000.1 (18" x 24") or dish 1000.2 (24 x 30)? The newer dish will give you better signal strength. Dish should upgrade you for free with 129 signals below 60.

    An in-line Satellite amp might help if installed near the dish and amplifies the full 2.25 or 3 GHz. frequency range. Most Sat amps are only up to 1 GHz and would not work with Dish pro plus transponders.

    Remember to use only 3 GHz connectors, grounding blocks, surge protectors, etc, as each time you insert something into the RG-6 cable you lose some signal strength.

    Paul
     
  8. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    "Most Sat amps are only up to 1 GHz and would not work with Dish pro plus transponders."

    Sat amps have 950-1450 MHz range at most !
     
  9. fadi

    fadi New Member

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    I have a dish 1000.2 hooked to 3 receivers (2 x 622's and 1 x 211). Both 622's are running 4.05 Software. The in-line sat amps that I'm looking at have a spec that says they amplify 950 MHz - 2.25 GHz. Not sure about the specs of the barrel connectors though. How can I tell if they're 3 GHz or not?
     
  10. BNUMM

    BNUMM Hall Of Fame

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    They will have a blue center.
     
  11. wje

    wje Godfather

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    Not true. There are manyr of them that go up to 2.1 or more Ghz (2100 Mhz), such as the Terk BIA-20, Sima SLA, the Trianglecables 201-605, Zenith ZDS-505 etc.
     
  12. rice0209

    rice0209 Legend

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    So I've probably got about a 50 to 60 foot run from my satellite to my DP44 in my basement. The distance between my DP44 and my receiver is about 30 ft or so.

    I am using QUAD shielded RG6, solid copper core, rate up to 3 GHZ.

    Do I possibly need an inline amplifier between my switch and dish?

    As stated before, my signals were peaked around 115 strength for 110/119 but now only report around 97 with no changes.
     
  13. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Not necessary.

    to wje - you should pickup paulcdavis's post for quote :(
     
  14. paulcdavis

    paulcdavis Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    As Bnumm said, the center of the barrel connectors will be blue. not white. Radio shack sells 3MHz dual gounding blocks that you can cut (if you have the tools) to use as connectors without the grounding block bracket. Or buy the single 3Ghz grounding block and just ignore the grounding bracket. I have not been able to find 3GHz barrel connectors on the net. If BNUMM has a source, please post a link.

    The Dish Network Approved Panamax satellite surge protector for Dish Pro Plus transponders does not have the blue connectors that it should, although it seems to work OK.

    Paul
     
  15. paulcdavis

    paulcdavis Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Stated range of an RF amp is only useful if the frequency response curve is flat (or nearly so) over the entire range. Unless they have elaborate filters, they will amplify below 500 MHz and over 1 GHz, just not very well. An amp with a 3 GHZ upper range would be best for dish pro plus band stacking.

    You can test this at home my checking the signal strengths on T1 and T2 for the same transponder in the point Dish menu. If one Sat input is allot lower than the other (say 10 points or more) you may have a problem with the frequency response of your cable, grounding block, surge protector, diplexer, barrel connector, etc.

    Paul
     
  16. paulcdavis

    paulcdavis Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    50 - 60 ft should be OK. Changing weather conditions, solar flares, and Dish playing with the transponders can cause a 15 point signal drop. Your Dish may also have moved and you might get higher signals back by tweaking the dish azimuth a bit. ( not for the faint of heart on a steep roof without a peaking meter)

    At 97 you'll have no problems with satellite lock and picture reception, I would worry if it drops below 60, as my Dish 1000.1 does sometimes on Satellite 129.

    Paul
     
  17. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    paul, my point was _sat_ RF amp have nominal range 900-1500 MHz, not as you mentioned 1 GHz . And other poster noticed, newest sat RF amps have 2.1+ GHz upper range.
    If you're really care, provide a link to that _sat_ ams specs.
     
  18. fadi

    fadi New Member

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    I guess my original question was if the occasional pixelation or momentary disappearance of the picture but not the sound, is that a sign of a weak signal, and if so would a proper in-line sat amp (rated to amplify signals to at least 2.25 GHz) fix the problem. Or should I look elsewhere? wiring is all 3 GHz rated RG 6 Quad. All barrel connectors have the blue insert.
     
  19. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I wouldn't worried at all - seems to me it happened up there, someone did overcompress the signal.
     
  20. paulcdavis

    paulcdavis Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I agree with P Smith,

    unless you have low signals strengths, especially on T1 or T2 and not the other, you don't need an amplifier. Momentary glitches occur some time in the data stream between the source, the Sats and your Dish.

    Paul
     
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